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<blockquote data-quote="GMforPowergamers" data-source="post: 6429316" data-attributes="member: 67338"><p>sigh...here we go again... </p><p></p><p>Let me say before I reply that I wonder if I went back and quoted every OGL or Piazo Vs WotC thread over the last 6 years if anything has changed... probably not.</p><p></p><p> yes, Paizo has a community board...so did 4e, so does rifts...so does everything else... that doesn't mean anything. And for the record, well my friend ross was argueing against Piazo... I was in the playtest, and on that board. You know what I found?</p><p></p><p>I found Piazo didn't want to hear "Hey look bonus feats and spells aren't anywhere near balanced as class features" or "Hey look at book of nine swords, and tacticle feats" or "hey maybe we can tone down the cleric so he can't buff as well", or "I really like warriors with battlefield control"</p><p></p><p></p><p>thank you so much for coming here and showing exactly what I mean so much better then I could without you...</p><p> this is THE EXACT PROBLME, THIS ANTI WOTC BULLYING!!!!</p><p>first of all Drop the Habro BS, it is WotC, Hasbro bearly notices the D&D dide... </p><p>second WotC did nothing ARROGANT unless you consider trying to solve problems and make a game arrogant...</p><p>third please show me anything involving wotc ever "without regard for their players"</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>BULL... they just made something new, something people where screaming for. Infact if they had not made 4e many of my friends would have left already... because those of us that did like 4e where the ones screaming obout liner fighter and quadratic wizards and CODzilla... you know who ignored us... PIAZO!!!!</p><p></p><p>yes how dare us players who want fighters and rogue to be as powerful and fun as wizards get a say... that you again for this time the passiza aggressive bullying...</p><p> they were also told FOR YEARS that caster rule/martial drule would not fly!!!</p><p></p><p></p><p>funny because this whole post is telling people who disagree with you exactly what you claim you hated...</p><p></p><p> I hope so, but I still see myself playing more and more spell casters... and maybe never getting a full warlord...</p><p></p><p></p><p> I hope your right... but right now 5e is a hard sell for a lot of people who loved 4e</p><p></p><p> yes, just not as bad...</p><p></p><p></p><p> The OGL let things get to a point that without it never could have</p><p></p><p> I want to scream everytime I see this... I mean it...</p><p>this is madning, here when we are talking about D&D 4e has as much right to be called true D&D as any other edition... it is a role playing game, it is a fantasy setting, and it has all the D&D bells and whistles... it is well balanced and innovative and full of both good and bad ideas. so as long as people out there keep saying it isn't D&D there will be arguments... and this is insane...</p><p> ding... yes for the first time in history... and the worst edition war... gee atleast coralation if not causation (I speculate causation but realistly there is no way to prove one or the other)</p><p></p><p> by fuiling nerd rage and cashing in on it... why yes they did...</p><p></p><p> 4e was no more different then 3.5 then 3.0 was from 2e...</p><p></p><p>so again we have 2 editions with major overhauls (2e-3e and 3.5-4e) both had major heated debates. both had early adaptors and early detractors. both were good games written to address complaints. What was different? well in 2000 WOtC was the only game in town, so it was stay with a system not in print or update... plenty of stories here on enworld include people staying with 2e for years but finally coming over to 3e when games were hard to find or just wanting new books, and then after trying 3e and "putting up with it" growing to like it. but in 2008 something was different, a company was able to keep 3.5 alive, and channel the nerd rage (the same edition wars that always happened) and the tribalism was WORSE... just look at these 2 threads I am replying to... it isn't "I like X edition more then Y edition" it's:</p><p></p><p>and </p><p>this is what the OGL wrought... </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The legacy of the OGL is</p><p>1) Large bloat of a mix of good, bad, awesome, and oh my god awful products that DMs had to wade through</p><p>2) Companies that instead of innovating (and some of them proved to be much better at that later) just kept making d20 stuff</p><p>3) the worst edition war in the games history</p><p>4) Tribalism that may never go away</p><p></p><p>Where there good things...Yes</p><p>Where there bad things...Yes</p><p>Did the bad out weight the good... In my opinion by a ton.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="GMforPowergamers, post: 6429316, member: 67338"] sigh...here we go again... Let me say before I reply that I wonder if I went back and quoted every OGL or Piazo Vs WotC thread over the last 6 years if anything has changed... probably not. yes, Paizo has a community board...so did 4e, so does rifts...so does everything else... that doesn't mean anything. And for the record, well my friend ross was argueing against Piazo... I was in the playtest, and on that board. You know what I found? I found Piazo didn't want to hear "Hey look bonus feats and spells aren't anywhere near balanced as class features" or "Hey look at book of nine swords, and tacticle feats" or "hey maybe we can tone down the cleric so he can't buff as well", or "I really like warriors with battlefield control" thank you so much for coming here and showing exactly what I mean so much better then I could without you... this is THE EXACT PROBLME, THIS ANTI WOTC BULLYING!!!! first of all Drop the Habro BS, it is WotC, Hasbro bearly notices the D&D dide... second WotC did nothing ARROGANT unless you consider trying to solve problems and make a game arrogant... third please show me anything involving wotc ever "without regard for their players" BULL... they just made something new, something people where screaming for. Infact if they had not made 4e many of my friends would have left already... because those of us that did like 4e where the ones screaming obout liner fighter and quadratic wizards and CODzilla... you know who ignored us... PIAZO!!!! yes how dare us players who want fighters and rogue to be as powerful and fun as wizards get a say... that you again for this time the passiza aggressive bullying... they were also told FOR YEARS that caster rule/martial drule would not fly!!! funny because this whole post is telling people who disagree with you exactly what you claim you hated... I hope so, but I still see myself playing more and more spell casters... and maybe never getting a full warlord... I hope your right... but right now 5e is a hard sell for a lot of people who loved 4e yes, just not as bad... The OGL let things get to a point that without it never could have I want to scream everytime I see this... I mean it... this is madning, here when we are talking about D&D 4e has as much right to be called true D&D as any other edition... it is a role playing game, it is a fantasy setting, and it has all the D&D bells and whistles... it is well balanced and innovative and full of both good and bad ideas. so as long as people out there keep saying it isn't D&D there will be arguments... and this is insane... ding... yes for the first time in history... and the worst edition war... gee atleast coralation if not causation (I speculate causation but realistly there is no way to prove one or the other) by fuiling nerd rage and cashing in on it... why yes they did... 4e was no more different then 3.5 then 3.0 was from 2e... so again we have 2 editions with major overhauls (2e-3e and 3.5-4e) both had major heated debates. both had early adaptors and early detractors. both were good games written to address complaints. What was different? well in 2000 WOtC was the only game in town, so it was stay with a system not in print or update... plenty of stories here on enworld include people staying with 2e for years but finally coming over to 3e when games were hard to find or just wanting new books, and then after trying 3e and "putting up with it" growing to like it. but in 2008 something was different, a company was able to keep 3.5 alive, and channel the nerd rage (the same edition wars that always happened) and the tribalism was WORSE... just look at these 2 threads I am replying to... it isn't "I like X edition more then Y edition" it's: and this is what the OGL wrought... The legacy of the OGL is 1) Large bloat of a mix of good, bad, awesome, and oh my god awful products that DMs had to wade through 2) Companies that instead of innovating (and some of them proved to be much better at that later) just kept making d20 stuff 3) the worst edition war in the games history 4) Tribalism that may never go away Where there good things...Yes Where there bad things...Yes Did the bad out weight the good... In my opinion by a ton. [/QUOTE]
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