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<blockquote data-quote="MGibster" data-source="post: 8800458" data-attributes="member: 4534">An objecctivist point of view?&nbsp; Who can forget Ayn Rand's hot take on the use of force in D&amp;D:&nbsp; I'm not sure what you mean by objective.&nbsp; Are you familiar with the Iliad?&nbsp; These great heroes of the tale, including Agamemnon, Ajax (both Greater and Lesser), Achilles, Paris, and even Hector, are all the type of people who kill their enemies and acquire loot.&nbsp; The central conflict between Achilles and Agamemnon, which leads Achilles to sitting out most of the story sulking in his tent, is because the Aggie took from Achilles the loot he had acquired in a raid.&nbsp; In this particular case the loot was named Briseis whom Achilles captured when he raided Lyrnessus killing her parents and brothers in the process.&nbsp; (Oh, I see what you mean by unheroic.)&nbsp; Nobody thought this was unheroic at the time though.&nbsp; When Hector stood on the walls of Ilium with his son Astyanax, voicing worries that his wife would end up working the loom in another man's house and his son killed, he then turned around and wishes his son to be an even greater warrior than him.&nbsp; i.e.&nbsp; He wanted his son to gain fame and glory going out there and enslaving women and making them work the loom in his house.&nbsp; Hell, the Greeks were so into looting, we have examples of these heroes stripping the corpses of their enemies in the middle of the battle.&nbsp; I do not agree with your interpretation of D&amp;D even in the early days.&nbsp; In Keep on the Boderlands, the Gnolls have a torture chamber where you find a half dead merchant.&nbsp; They have slave pens where you can find goblins, humans, and orcs.&nbsp; That would seem to imply that they're going out and raiding human (and other) settlements or caravans.&nbsp; They're not just a group of Gnolls sitting around in their Caves of Chaos minding their own business.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="MGibster, post: 8800458, member: 4534"] An objecctivist point of view? Who can forget Ayn Rand's hot take on the use of force in D&D: I'm not sure what you mean by objective. Are you familiar with the Iliad? These great heroes of the tale, including Agamemnon, Ajax (both Greater and Lesser), Achilles, Paris, and even Hector, are all the type of people who kill their enemies and acquire loot. The central conflict between Achilles and Agamemnon, which leads Achilles to sitting out most of the story sulking in his tent, is because the Aggie took from Achilles the loot he had acquired in a raid. In this particular case the loot was named Briseis whom Achilles captured when he raided Lyrnessus killing her parents and brothers in the process. (Oh, I see what you mean by unheroic.) Nobody thought this was unheroic at the time though. When Hector stood on the walls of Ilium with his son Astyanax, voicing worries that his wife would end up working the loom in another man's house and his son killed, he then turned around and wishes his son to be an even greater warrior than him. i.e. He wanted his son to gain fame and glory going out there and enslaving women and making them work the loom in his house. Hell, the Greeks were so into looting, we have examples of these heroes stripping the corpses of their enemies in the middle of the battle. I do not agree with your interpretation of D&D even in the early days. In Keep on the Boderlands, the Gnolls have a torture chamber where you find a half dead merchant. They have slave pens where you can find goblins, humans, and orcs. That would seem to imply that they're going out and raiding human (and other) settlements or caravans. They're not just a group of Gnolls sitting around in their Caves of Chaos minding their own business. [/QUOTE]

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