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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DonB" data-source="post: 243694" data-attributes="member: 5687">Hi there -Hey, great topic and great responses. It's great to hear people not simply slamming gaming fiction for a change! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> I thought maybe you all would like to hear a bit about writing game novels from the writer's point of view. Just to introduce myself, I'm Don Bassingthwaite - I've got six of the things under my belt currently (plus a small whack of game-based short stories) for a couple of different companies. I'm also a gaming reviewer for Black Gate magazine (and previously for sfsite.com), so I do actually read game novels as well - and let me agree, there are some real stinkers out there!(If anyone thinks my novels are among them, go ahead and say so - I don't mind hearing criticism)Theron's right - writing fiction is very different from writing other game material and there's a different sensibility involved. Fiction needs plot, character, a certain sense of timing, and an ear for dialogue and description, things that aren't quite as crucial in a game book. OTOH, what I'd consider a good game book requires an astounding attention to detail, flexibility (trying to anticipate all the wants of a gamer), and a much more intimate knowledge of the game rules than a novel does. Fiction is linear, game material is amorphous, and you can't really map one style onto the other without making a mess.That's not to say there are certain things that overlap - good description, a bit of restraint, and a sense of the bigger picture (of the game world and of real world audience demand) are good for either kind of writing.I think the bigger picture of the game world is an important aspect of gaming fiction that a lot of writers miss. As both Theron and Yuan-Ti mentioned, we're playing in someone else's sandbox. Yes, that can be limiting, but IMHO a good writer can get around that - it actually becomes something of a challenge. Some of the worst gaming fiction I've read seems to happen when the writer either doesn't know the world or apparently decides that certain rules of the setting just don't apply to him or her. We're writing for an audience that knows their stuff - we need to keep it consistent. We can bend, we can twist (playing against type with characters is great), but we shouldn't break. The other thing that bugs me is when a writer throws in some event of apocalyptic proportions and their heroes end up saving the world. Great - what do you do for a sequel? To be fair, that might be what the editors asked them to write, but it still makes it hard for the next guy to come along.Shared worlds can also be a bit overwhelming though and leaping into them whole hog is also bad. Have you ever noticed in a movie or TV show that when the characters go to some well-known city, there's _always_ a slideshow of all the famous sights? The same thing can happen in game novels - there's a wealth of information, so the temptation to throw in a bunch of famous details for the heck of it is strong. It's like putting salt on food - a little is just right, too much and it's just nasty.As far as pulling punches on the dark, nasty, and sexual, I don't like it personally, but that's sometimes the price you have to pay for working for someone else. I've been really lucky in working for companies and lines that let me get away with adult themes - I think that having them there really adds to the depth of the story. BTW to Theron, yes,  I think WotC's loosening of the ties on game materials is extending to fiction - I had a lot of leeway in writing my DarkMatter novels (even so far as dealing with homosexuality openly, which is a bit of a triumph) and there are some very graphic turns in Keith Strohm's Tomb of Horrors and Richard Lee Byer's new Dissolution (I got an advance reading copy for review - two thumbs up!).So what do I think makes for bad gaming fiction? Well, I'd agree with Humanophile that fiction that creates a super-PC with no controls is bad. A character that has no weakness or vulnerability and wins all the time is bad whether you're writing a book or playing a game. OTOH, Humanophile, I disagree with you about the "no dice to inject the chance of failure" - there should be no dice in a novel because failure shouldn't be random. No failure is bad, but random failure is worse. A good novel needs to be tight. One of the more frequent criticisms of game novels I've heard is that "you can hear the dice rolling in the background" - the book reads too much like the transcript of a game. I've read game books where wandering monsters show up. I usually end up throwing those books across the room.Game rules are a tricky thing for fiction writers. On the one hand, you have to respect them, but on the other, they really weren't designed for creative writing. Leaving aside the use of game terms by characters (who invoked the name of Rose Estes?), there are things like character abilities that end up very restricting - skill progressions, level, that sort of thing. Damage in combat is another good one. When someone is sticking too close to rules it shows, but it also shows when they try to pull too far back and start ignoring things blatantly. Generally what I like to do is read the rules, make sure nothing I have is an outright contradiction, and then put the books away, to be consulted only when necessary. If I can forget I'm writing for a game and concentrate on writing a novel, it's good. This isn't high literature, but that's no reason not to write a good book. Someone mentioned they really enjoyed Paul Kidd's Greyhawk novels - I would _so_ second that! If you want a good pulpy read, I'd also point you to the Felix and Gotrek novels by William King for Warhammer.Thanks!Don</blockquote>

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