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Gaming W/Jemal: Planar Quest! (Closed)
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<blockquote data-quote="Jemal" data-source="post: 6038038" data-attributes="member: 9026"><p>Kinem - I was honestly contemplating ignoring this post b/c I wasn't sure I could respond to your (somewhat inflammatory) comments diplomatically. First off, I'm just going to say one thing : Just because your morals and beliefs differ from other peoples does not give you the right to say other people's views are ridiculous. </p><p>I would ask that you remain open minded to different opinions, not everybody sees things the same way.</p><p>Unless they're into scientology.. then they just crazy..</p><p></p><p></p><p>I am however going to adress a few things directly.</p><p> It has nothing to do with justification. Can it end the battle in one stroke? Yes, but it has a higher tendency to do absolutely nothing. </p><p>Think of it this way : You have a six-shooter gun, which can win any fight with a single bullet.. but you only HAVE 1 bullet in the chamber, and can only fire one a round. That's what save-or spells are like. You keep focusing on the "It wins in one shot" aspect and ignoring the fact that it's nowhere near guaranteed. </p><p>If you think wanting something more reliable and less all or nothing is a 'weak justification for holding back' then clearly we are thinking on entirely different planes of existence. </p><p></p><p>Don't agree morally? Lets talk Science.</p><p>If you want to break it down into math, I could do that too : </p><p>EX: A lvl 20 mage with 36 stat(18 base +2 race +5 book +5 lvl +6 item) and greater spell focus using a 9th lvl save or spell would have a DC of 34. Using just core, that's literally the best you can do.</p><p>A good PC save at this lvl is ~20-25, and badguys tend to have better stats than PC's.</p><p>Lets use the most Iconic example we can : A Red Wyrm (I'll just use the CR 24 version to simulate a boss fight rather than the full Great wyrm). He has a +30, and that's assuming no magical buffs. </p><p>He needs a 3 to fail.. That gives a 15% chance of our example mage's max level spell winning, and 85% chance of nothing. </p><p>So my prior gun analogy actually gives you a BETTER chance of success than a maxed out caster using a save-or spell. (16.666)</p><p>*For the record, THAT is a justification.*</p><p></p><p>If you still like your 1-bullet golden gun, that's your prerogative, but I prefer reliability, and that's very much the opposite of either being ridiculous, or holding back.</p><p></p><p> Except that's NOT what I said.. If you took away the damaging factor ALTOGETHER then you'd be much closer to PAO.. my problem with PAO is that it DOESN'T have any effect if they make the save. If noxious blast changed the blast so it had no damage, and JUST had the incapacitating effect on enemies and a minor (Usually utility based) buff on allies, THEN they'd be close to similar.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Jemal, post: 6038038, member: 9026"] Kinem - I was honestly contemplating ignoring this post b/c I wasn't sure I could respond to your (somewhat inflammatory) comments diplomatically. First off, I'm just going to say one thing : Just because your morals and beliefs differ from other peoples does not give you the right to say other people's views are ridiculous. I would ask that you remain open minded to different opinions, not everybody sees things the same way. Unless they're into scientology.. then they just crazy.. I am however going to adress a few things directly. It has nothing to do with justification. Can it end the battle in one stroke? Yes, but it has a higher tendency to do absolutely nothing. Think of it this way : You have a six-shooter gun, which can win any fight with a single bullet.. but you only HAVE 1 bullet in the chamber, and can only fire one a round. That's what save-or spells are like. You keep focusing on the "It wins in one shot" aspect and ignoring the fact that it's nowhere near guaranteed. If you think wanting something more reliable and less all or nothing is a 'weak justification for holding back' then clearly we are thinking on entirely different planes of existence. Don't agree morally? Lets talk Science. If you want to break it down into math, I could do that too : EX: A lvl 20 mage with 36 stat(18 base +2 race +5 book +5 lvl +6 item) and greater spell focus using a 9th lvl save or spell would have a DC of 34. Using just core, that's literally the best you can do. A good PC save at this lvl is ~20-25, and badguys tend to have better stats than PC's. Lets use the most Iconic example we can : A Red Wyrm (I'll just use the CR 24 version to simulate a boss fight rather than the full Great wyrm). He has a +30, and that's assuming no magical buffs. He needs a 3 to fail.. That gives a 15% chance of our example mage's max level spell winning, and 85% chance of nothing. So my prior gun analogy actually gives you a BETTER chance of success than a maxed out caster using a save-or spell. (16.666) *For the record, THAT is a justification.* If you still like your 1-bullet golden gun, that's your prerogative, but I prefer reliability, and that's very much the opposite of either being ridiculous, or holding back. Except that's NOT what I said.. If you took away the damaging factor ALTOGETHER then you'd be much closer to PAO.. my problem with PAO is that it DOESN'T have any effect if they make the save. If noxious blast changed the blast so it had no damage, and JUST had the incapacitating effect on enemies and a minor (Usually utility based) buff on allies, THEN they'd be close to similar. [/QUOTE]
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