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<blockquote data-quote="Jemal" data-source="post: 6097839" data-attributes="member: 9026"><p>I was hoping not to get too deep into the humanoid thing, because it IS a plot point later in the story. Suffice to say that there are answers, your characters just won't have them yet, and if the game lasts long enough, things shall be revealed.</p><p></p><p>I'd be open to a character such as Shayuri suggested, one that is baffled by the existence of so many humanoids and looking for answers, though keep in mind that they've been common place for a couple centuries, so you would be a major oddity, questioning something that's been an accepted fact since centuries before the downfall of civilization. Even if you're right, nobody's likely to listen to you because they KNOW that all the intelligent life encountered - with the exception of that from another GALAXY - is at least vaguely similar to humans. If you're OK with being 'that scientist' though, it could make for some interesting roleplaying, especially given the events of the game. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p>VV: I've also msg'd you back about the possibility of being an extra-galactic being. Though I'd prefer the characters to all be from the Milky Way, I could accept a single 'oddity'.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Also, I do have an understanding - albeit informal - of Chemistry, Biology, Evolutionary theory, Physics, Astrophysics, and Astrobiology, and often converse with true scientists, and enjoy research, so I'm not just pulling this stuff out of my 'portable hole'. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p>However, in the end what matters is that this is the story I'm telling, and if you'd like to be a part of it, I'm afraid you'll have to find a way to either suspend or harness your disbelief for the good of the story.</p><p>However, I too enjoy a good debate, so as long as we can do so without interfering in the game: </p><p>[sblock=Debate]</p><p></p><p>Saying that an assumption of carbon based life is a leap into fantasy seems to indicate a lack of chemical and cosmic understanding. In Astrobiology, it's generally accepted as common sense that WHEN we find other life, it should be carbon based.</p><p></p><p>There has been a staggeringly large amount of exceptionally varied life forms on earth, and the one thing they all have in common is their chemical basis being Carbon. </p><p>That's not something unique to our planet, Carbon is the most likely chemical for life to form around and is the fourth most abundant chemical known to man, preceded only by Hydrogen and Oxygen(Water), and Helium (Which is noble and inert). The next most likely chemical in the milky way that COULD form the basis of life is Silicone. Even if we assume Silicone WOULD form life, (which is something we haven't seen on the entirety of our planet, or in any of the organic compounds and hydrocarbons we've found on meteorites/etc), it's only about a tenth as abundant as Carbon. This would seem to indicate carbon based life as being 10x more likely than silicone simply by dint of abundance alone. Add on top of that the fact that any form based on Silicone would require an environment free of Oxygen - a chemical even more abundant than Carbon - and Silicone's likeliness as a candidate drops even further.</p><p>And Silicone is the leading contender among alternate biochemistry theories, even people who sneer at 'carbon chauvinism' concede that after silicone the statistical probabilities of variant life drop dramatically.</p><p></p><p>*<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMIyYwq_A8E" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMIyYwq_A8E</a> Neil Degrasse Tyson describes it better than I, and you may pay more heed to him since he's got 'official lurnin'.</p><p>Part of his rant is about the fact that life DOES exist, and thus inconsequential to our current debate, I'm just pointing out his support of carbon-based life.*</p><p></p><p>RE: Humanoid - Keep in mind that the term 'humanoid' is rather open-ended in science fiction. </p><p></p><p>And you don't need to go into the fossil records to see the variety of life on earth, there's no question that any style of life form IS possible, however in the galaxy of this science Fiction Game (Emphasis on the fiction and the game), as with most games and fiction, artistic license is often taken in order to tell a story. </p><p>Both Science Fiction and Games are about suspension of disbelief, if you need sheer gritty realism this is not the place for it. </p><p></p><p>Also, 'Stochastic phenomena' is just a scientific way of saying luck. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite7" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue :p" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":p" /></p><p></p><p></p><p>*SIDE NOTE: I find it amusing that no matter what game I play, the argument always seems to be about minor scientific anomalies rather than the stuff that is a much greater breach of science? in D&D I always have to mediate arguments over falling speed, but nobody gives a damn about the two mile tall giant swinging a mountain and flinging lightning...</p><p></p><p>I don't mean to be dismissive, I'm actually curious : Does the concept of Carbon based humanoids from another planet really bug you more than ships travelling thousands of times the speed of light, teleporting ships, and an intergalactic war that managed to wipe out the vast majority of civilization, life, and knowledge across the entire galaxy? Because scientifically, I would understand the former to be the MOST plausible of all that.[/sblock]</p><p></p><p></p><p>The way I viewed it, None of the current civilizations/governments really existed in a big way during the war. When I say civilization FELL, I mean it fell HARD. The Victorian empire could be one of the first to have clawed its way back up, or it's possible that some of the planets managed to survive partially intact. </p><p>The devastation caused by the extra-galactic Enemy was near-total. The majority of sentients that survived did so on less advanced planets that weren't targeted, or on mobile ship convoys(ALA Battlestar Galactica), only re-colonizing after the war. Perhaps the Victorian empire was stagnant, uninspired monarchistic planets that were skipped as 'unimportant targets' during the war. They're not advanced because they were important before, but because they WEREN'T, they're 'advanced' now because everybody who WAS more advanced than their slow-moving ways was destroyed.</p><p>Imagine everybody in the world today reduced to Dark Ages level technology - except some which were on the level of the Old West.. advanced enough to understand and maybe begin reproducing some of the 21st century technology even though they didn't have it before. </p><p>They may have been far behind before, but they're ahead of the curve now.</p><p>The more liberal recent leanings could come from the realization that they are now at the technological forefront, and have the opportunity to seize the day and expand. Possibly they could see themselves as the light of humanity destined to lead the rest out of the darkness.</p><p></p><p>Keep in mind humanity was a galaxy-spanning type-2 civilization, much bigger and more advanced than the Star Trek Federation or Star Wars Empire, and is now split into many splintered groups centuries behind what they once were.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Jemal, post: 6097839, member: 9026"] I was hoping not to get too deep into the humanoid thing, because it IS a plot point later in the story. Suffice to say that there are answers, your characters just won't have them yet, and if the game lasts long enough, things shall be revealed. I'd be open to a character such as Shayuri suggested, one that is baffled by the existence of so many humanoids and looking for answers, though keep in mind that they've been common place for a couple centuries, so you would be a major oddity, questioning something that's been an accepted fact since centuries before the downfall of civilization. Even if you're right, nobody's likely to listen to you because they KNOW that all the intelligent life encountered - with the exception of that from another GALAXY - is at least vaguely similar to humans. If you're OK with being 'that scientist' though, it could make for some interesting roleplaying, especially given the events of the game. :) VV: I've also msg'd you back about the possibility of being an extra-galactic being. Though I'd prefer the characters to all be from the Milky Way, I could accept a single 'oddity'. Also, I do have an understanding - albeit informal - of Chemistry, Biology, Evolutionary theory, Physics, Astrophysics, and Astrobiology, and often converse with true scientists, and enjoy research, so I'm not just pulling this stuff out of my 'portable hole'. ;) However, in the end what matters is that this is the story I'm telling, and if you'd like to be a part of it, I'm afraid you'll have to find a way to either suspend or harness your disbelief for the good of the story. However, I too enjoy a good debate, so as long as we can do so without interfering in the game: [sblock=Debate] Saying that an assumption of carbon based life is a leap into fantasy seems to indicate a lack of chemical and cosmic understanding. In Astrobiology, it's generally accepted as common sense that WHEN we find other life, it should be carbon based. There has been a staggeringly large amount of exceptionally varied life forms on earth, and the one thing they all have in common is their chemical basis being Carbon. That's not something unique to our planet, Carbon is the most likely chemical for life to form around and is the fourth most abundant chemical known to man, preceded only by Hydrogen and Oxygen(Water), and Helium (Which is noble and inert). The next most likely chemical in the milky way that COULD form the basis of life is Silicone. Even if we assume Silicone WOULD form life, (which is something we haven't seen on the entirety of our planet, or in any of the organic compounds and hydrocarbons we've found on meteorites/etc), it's only about a tenth as abundant as Carbon. This would seem to indicate carbon based life as being 10x more likely than silicone simply by dint of abundance alone. Add on top of that the fact that any form based on Silicone would require an environment free of Oxygen - a chemical even more abundant than Carbon - and Silicone's likeliness as a candidate drops even further. And Silicone is the leading contender among alternate biochemistry theories, even people who sneer at 'carbon chauvinism' concede that after silicone the statistical probabilities of variant life drop dramatically. *[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMIyYwq_A8E[/url] Neil Degrasse Tyson describes it better than I, and you may pay more heed to him since he's got 'official lurnin'. Part of his rant is about the fact that life DOES exist, and thus inconsequential to our current debate, I'm just pointing out his support of carbon-based life.* RE: Humanoid - Keep in mind that the term 'humanoid' is rather open-ended in science fiction. And you don't need to go into the fossil records to see the variety of life on earth, there's no question that any style of life form IS possible, however in the galaxy of this science Fiction Game (Emphasis on the fiction and the game), as with most games and fiction, artistic license is often taken in order to tell a story. Both Science Fiction and Games are about suspension of disbelief, if you need sheer gritty realism this is not the place for it. Also, 'Stochastic phenomena' is just a scientific way of saying luck. :p *SIDE NOTE: I find it amusing that no matter what game I play, the argument always seems to be about minor scientific anomalies rather than the stuff that is a much greater breach of science? in D&D I always have to mediate arguments over falling speed, but nobody gives a damn about the two mile tall giant swinging a mountain and flinging lightning... I don't mean to be dismissive, I'm actually curious : Does the concept of Carbon based humanoids from another planet really bug you more than ships travelling thousands of times the speed of light, teleporting ships, and an intergalactic war that managed to wipe out the vast majority of civilization, life, and knowledge across the entire galaxy? Because scientifically, I would understand the former to be the MOST plausible of all that.[/sblock] The way I viewed it, None of the current civilizations/governments really existed in a big way during the war. When I say civilization FELL, I mean it fell HARD. The Victorian empire could be one of the first to have clawed its way back up, or it's possible that some of the planets managed to survive partially intact. The devastation caused by the extra-galactic Enemy was near-total. The majority of sentients that survived did so on less advanced planets that weren't targeted, or on mobile ship convoys(ALA Battlestar Galactica), only re-colonizing after the war. Perhaps the Victorian empire was stagnant, uninspired monarchistic planets that were skipped as 'unimportant targets' during the war. They're not advanced because they were important before, but because they WEREN'T, they're 'advanced' now because everybody who WAS more advanced than their slow-moving ways was destroyed. Imagine everybody in the world today reduced to Dark Ages level technology - except some which were on the level of the Old West.. advanced enough to understand and maybe begin reproducing some of the 21st century technology even though they didn't have it before. They may have been far behind before, but they're ahead of the curve now. The more liberal recent leanings could come from the realization that they are now at the technological forefront, and have the opportunity to seize the day and expand. Possibly they could see themselves as the light of humanity destined to lead the rest out of the darkness. Keep in mind humanity was a galaxy-spanning type-2 civilization, much bigger and more advanced than the Star Trek Federation or Star Wars Empire, and is now split into many splintered groups centuries behind what they once were. [/QUOTE]
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