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"Gamism," The Forge, and the Elephant in the Room
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<blockquote data-quote="Crazy Jerome" data-source="post: 5793022" data-attributes="member: 54877"><p>For me, part of it is the challenge--though I frame more as "keeping the party on the edge without pushing them over" than straight adversarial play. Not that I play golf, but from the many friends that do, I think this is somewhat analogous. You may play in a foursome, but you are really playing <strong>against</strong> the course. If you happen to have a friendly wager on the side, that will increase the feel of playing against the other players, but it doesn't change the essential nature of the activity. You can get a similar feeling in any sport (you challenge yourself to be as good as you can be regardless of the competition), but my understanding is that the nature of "You versus the course" really brings this out in golf. In any case, RPGs scratch this particular itch for me in a way that a board game or card game never could.</p><p> </p><p>Also, there is a sense in which pure gamism is a lesser form of this challenge than going for a blend. But that is true of pure anything. Whatever one thinks about the Forge dogma that the creative agendas cannot mix, it is true that succesfully mixing them is a challenge of your ability with all three agendas. That is, if <strong>all</strong> I have to do is provide room for the players to step up, or help them experience the world or their characters, or provoke them to pursue an immediate story--I can do that with one hand tied behind my back, half asleep. Heck, when the players really get going in one of those modes, sometimes I think I have done it half asleep. But blending all three (or rapidly switching between them, if you prefer); looking for cues; deflty poking here or prodding there, without taking over full control and steering the action--that's tough. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f60e.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":cool:" title="Cool :cool:" data-smilie="6"data-shortname=":cool:" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Crazy Jerome, post: 5793022, member: 54877"] For me, part of it is the challenge--though I frame more as "keeping the party on the edge without pushing them over" than straight adversarial play. Not that I play golf, but from the many friends that do, I think this is somewhat analogous. You may play in a foursome, but you are really playing [B]against[/B] the course. If you happen to have a friendly wager on the side, that will increase the feel of playing against the other players, but it doesn't change the essential nature of the activity. You can get a similar feeling in any sport (you challenge yourself to be as good as you can be regardless of the competition), but my understanding is that the nature of "You versus the course" really brings this out in golf. In any case, RPGs scratch this particular itch for me in a way that a board game or card game never could. Also, there is a sense in which pure gamism is a lesser form of this challenge than going for a blend. But that is true of pure anything. Whatever one thinks about the Forge dogma that the creative agendas cannot mix, it is true that succesfully mixing them is a challenge of your ability with all three agendas. That is, if [B]all[/B] I have to do is provide room for the players to step up, or help them experience the world or their characters, or provoke them to pursue an immediate story--I can do that with one hand tied behind my back, half asleep. Heck, when the players really get going in one of those modes, sometimes I think I have done it half asleep. But blending all three (or rapidly switching between them, if you prefer); looking for cues; deflty poking here or prodding there, without taking over full control and steering the action--that's tough. :cool: [/QUOTE]
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