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Message: <blockquote data-quote="fireinthedust" data-source="post: 4924932" data-attributes="member: 51930">yeah, but did Gandalf die before coming to the Bridge?  I don't think so. Really, when we're talking the West, Gandalf was a Maiar.  I'd say this was the period before he became a Deva, basically he was just an angel back then.  As such, he could have massively different stats, whatever. When he and Saruman, Radagast and the others (the two Blue mages in the South, if not others) came to middle earth, they took the forms of old men.  Gandalf may have been apparently the oldest, needing his walking staff (and thus was called Wand-elf or something, thus Gandalf; it was the stick, I think, but I'll check later). So let's not throw on a pile of alternate lives, unless this is your particular PC (then you can do whatever you want).  If we're going Gandalf-Gandalf, really we're talking about just one rebirth.     Also, it makes sense that White Wizard is a Paragon Path, with the specification that there can be only one of them, for this same reason. However, if you downloaded the Adventure Tools Beta Monster Builder, you now have the opportunity to whip up your very own version of a pre-flesh Gandalf.  Ie: the Angel or Planetar or whatever in D&D we're going to say that he was: Maiar.     Technically any Outsider from 3e would be considered a Maiar.  The Balrog was one, as was Sauron.  Shelob was the descendant of a powerful spider critter, I think, but I don't know if it was itself a Maiar per se.  There were, I think, Greater ones and lesser ones.  Some went evil, along with Morgoth, most were good I guess, but they stayed behind.  Gandalf and the other wizards were lesser ones. I think of the West as the Planes in other settings: high level beasties go there.</blockquote>

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