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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Eric Finley" data-source="post: 4765257" data-attributes="member: 83401">Bagpuss... unfortunately, no.  Action Points are not the problem, there's just the easiest engine for it to appear.  I can't come up with example offhand, but I'm sure that a devoted search would turn up an instance where I could (a) take a minor action which inflicted, say, Blinded until EoNT, and then ready using my standard action.  Alternately, an Orb wizard casts a Blind-until-EoNT on turn one, then on his next turn he readies an action and uses the Orb ability to extend his Blind until the end of his next turn.  Either situation also triggers the effect.  Fixing action points isn't the solution.And, mneme, let's not feed the troll.  If his interpretation of the initiative sequence is such that the character with the worst initiative roll can neither delay turn nor ready an action, because the end of the round "clears the slate" (or, requires a clean slate, else game locks), then so be it.  It'd be grossly counterintuitive in places, no doubt, but it might also honestly provide an interesting tactical situation and an incentive to prioritize initiative.  (Of course, in this situation, the entry "Losing a Delayed Turn" on PHB p.288 addresses a situation that can never, by definition, occur.  But hey, apparently that doesn't bother our friend here.)While we're on the topic of delays/readies... I thought of a possible solution to the Sustained Effects issue related to this.  What bugs me about this in the RAW is simply this - a Sustained Effect is supposed to be continuous, so long as you concentrate on it.  So, apparently you can (say) cast a 29th level daily spell without disrupting that concentration (assuming it's a Sustain Move or Minor), but even a tiny bit of tactical coordination with your allies (holding back a strike until after the Fighter scrambles out of the blast radius) is a deal-breaker.  Huh??Now, if there's simply no solution that doesn't open up a can of loopholes, fine; but if I can, I'd like to come up with a solution that allows things that are supposed to be continuous to remain so, like intuition would assume.My thought is this:- When you delay, you can commit to a sustain action on the delayed turn.  (Basically, you say, "I'm going to delay until after Joe, but yeah, I'll keep the Wall of Acid in effect.")  The effect is provisionally sustained and remains in effect.  If the sustain action has an effect other than "the effect persists", you don't do that now.- When your delayed turn comes up, you must spend that action and sustain the effect.  The sustain action is resolved normally.- If, at any point, you suddenly don't have access to the action you committed to do but haven't performed yet (such as because you were stunned, or it's a Sustain Standard and you got hit with Far Realm Phantasm from Dragon #366 which coopts your next standard action, or what have you), the sustained effect stops immediately.  If you have an Action Point and you could use that to keep the sustain going (works in the Far Realm Phantasm case, not in the stun), then you can commit to that as well, if you want.Two examples:1) Wizard has cast Flaming Sphere, and has been sustaining it for a while.  But he's immobilized at range nine to the sphere, range 11 to an ogre, and range 12 to Fighter (all in a line).  Fighter's got Tide of Iron and offers to use it.  Wizard delays until after Fighter (who, say, goes right after Wizard anyway).Per RAW: Wizard delays, Flaming Sphere evaporates instantly.Per this fix: Wizard delays, commits to sustaining the Sphere.  Fighter acts, uses Tide of Iron to push the ogre adjacent to the Sphere and to within 10 of Wizard.  Wizard takes his delayed turn.  His minor action MUST be to sustain the Sphere.  He does so, and adds a Scorching Burst as well, hitting the ogre nice and hard.2) Same example, but between Wizard and Fighter there's an oni.  Wizard delays and commits to maintaining the sphere.  Oni hits Wizard with a stun-until-EoNT smash to the head.  Wizard's commitment to maintain the sphere now can't be kept; the sphere evaporates as soon as we see that Wizard is stunned.Now... can anyone construct an abuse with this rule?  How about an abuse which is nonobvious and/or intevitable, and thus can't be remedied with the GM smack-stick?(PS: Crossposted with Mirtek.  Mirtek, yes; it's PHB p.288 you're thinking of.  This thread exists because Ready Action, p.291, does not have those restrictions in place, yet accomplishes much the same thing.  My fix is to find a way in which the Delay Turn restrictions you refer to can also apply in a logical way to Ready Action's effects.)</blockquote>

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