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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 7895134" data-attributes="member: 4937">Well, yes, groups and cultures are often pretentious and arrogant. People who define themselves by an identity almost invariably take pride and often unreasonable pride in that identity. That goes with being human, and it is a vice and most of the time it is justly condemned.But, I think we should also be sympathetic. There are times when there is purpose behind the gate keeping. To move away from the immediately touchy subject of our own community to something hopefully less touchy, I'm also a fan of the Columbus Crew (a professional soccer team, #savedthecrew). Now, the Columbus Crew like many professional teams has supporters groups. Supporters groups are supported by the team and often get special access and privileges. You have to however join the supporters group and that comes with a bunch of expectations about how you are going to behave. For example, you'll be expected to spend hundreds of dollars on black and yellow gear so that you look the part. You'll probably be expected to spend thousands of dollars on season tickets. You'll be expected to spend time, money, and energy creating signs, tifos, and other things which show your support for the team. And you'll be expected to stand - not sit - in the supporters section, and sing, chant, and cheer throughout the entire game.Are these unreasonable expectations? Ought you to expect to be a member of a supporters group if you have no intention of doing any of these things? Do you think you should just have front row access in the supporters section if you dress for a game in a random t-shirt and blue jeans? Is that fair? Do you think that you should be fully approved for access to the supporters section if you show up wearing red and white when we play Toronto or NYRB (or really at any game)? Or do you think the groups and the team have a reasonable expectation that they can determine whether or not you are a "real fan" based on your behavior?I think that they do. And whether you think they do or not, as a practical matter, they in fact do have a right to gatekeep their members and be selective about who gets in.And we could say that this is even more true about my daughters club team, or the Columbus Crew themselves. The Columbus Crew have a vested interest in not letting a 400lb guy with no talent in soccer taking the field for them, no matter how much he wants to play for them and be part of the team. You have to be a more than middling good soccer player to get on the team. You have to exceed certain minimum standards, or you can't get on that field no matter how unfair you think it is or how much you declare that the issue is 'weightism' and not the fact that you need to run 5 or more miles in 90 minutes at good pace.Now does this mean that all gatekeeping is just and reasonable? No. We can easily imagine standards that groups could have that are unreasonable. But I do think that at some level we are all going to agree that group have a vested interest in policing there membership, and keeping out "poseurs" and other members that don't reflect the values of the group (whatever they are). There is a thing where you want to accrue to yourself status as a member of the group, without doing the work to obtain that status or accepting the responsibilities that come with it.</blockquote>

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