Gather Information: Player vs. Character

[Rafael Ceurdepyr]

How do you DM Gather Information checks? My bard character has a +15 in Gather Info, but when it comes time to find out stuff, I don't feel like I as a player ask the right questions. I realize that the GM isn't going to just hand out that info, but sometimes I feel penalized because I was too stupid to ask a question that my 6th level bard would know perfectly well how to ask. [I suspect if I don't ask the right questions, my DM (through his not-quite infiinite grace) will get the info to the party eventually, but I don't know that for a fact.] Any insight to share?

 

[Li Shenron]

How do you DM Gather Information checks? My bard character has a +15 in Gather Info, but when it comes time to find out stuff, I don't feel like I as a player ask the right questions. I realize that the GM isn't going to just hand out that info, but sometimes I feel penalized because I was too stupid to ask a question that my 6th level bard would know perfectly well how to ask. [I suspect if I don't ask the right questions, my DM (through his not-quite infiinite grace) will get the info to the party eventually, but I don't know that for a fact.] Any insight to share?

Well, something you said yourself... you provide WHAT to ask and your PC provides HOW to ask it

Ok it's not that simple of course. But at least this is what I say as a DM: you can use Gather Information either (1) to find a specific information or (2) to find out as much as you can about a topic.

It's of course the player who says "I want to spend the evening around taverns to try finding out which is the password to the thieves' guild". Could it be a good or a bad idea doing this, depending on the story, and the player is resposible. Then your character "makes" the Gather Info check with his own charisma bonus and ranks. A high result means that he managed to be very convincing, a low result may mean he wa so inappropriate that he gained the attention of the guild in an unwanted way for example.

Sometimes the skill is just used in the second way, players don't have a clue of what to ask specifically to find out what type is the local lord, so they just choose to spend the day trying to raise the subject to everyone they meet. If no one is willing to roleplay a more precise scene, let's make a generic GI roll and the DM may toss in a couple of info.

Anyway, it's a good practice to grant out bonus/penalties on the roll if the players have very good idea (or very bad ideas) of what to ask or what precaution to take while asking, such as specifically mentioning or avoid mentioning something.

 

[S'mon]

I use Gather Info skill purely as an abstract skill (that takes about a day to use), not for in-character roleplay - I can't see how that would work at all. It's an important skill in my game as it largely determines the buy/sell value of loot!

 

[Umbran]

To me, Gather Information is mostly about how well you go about getting the answers to questions. It is all about interpersonal interactions, and thus is based upon Charisma.

Knowing what to ask has nothing whatsoever to do with how persuasive you are. Instead, it is a matter of Intelligence or Wisdom, depending on the question.

A 6th level bard may be great with personal interactions, but not so hot with deductive reasoning that woudl take him to ask the right questions.

 

[S'mon]

I guess I use Diplomacy for the kind of face-to-face Charisma-based stuff people are talking about here. But knowing what questions to ask comes down to the player, not the PC, possibly with some hints from the GM - hints maybe ostensibly justified by the PCs' high INT or high Gather Info skill, but 'really' justified by a desire to move things along...

 

[Janx]

Ah yes, the Social Crutch skills.

I tend to concur with the use of Gather Information to represent abstract trolling for information. Ie. "My character spends the day hitting the taverns, looking to learn more about Lord Whatsisface"

It seems like, in most cases, all the social skills end up working best when used in this fashion. Basically the player states an attempt at an effect and rolls the dice for the outcome. As opposed to the player role-playing the encounter to see if he is successful.

I almost think the two methods are contradictory. Basically, as a GM, you should decide which method you will use and eliminate the other. Like role-playing encounters and dislike "rolling for it" then eliminate the social skills. In this method, it would be up to the player's role-playing skills and DM abjudication to determine what happens next. The Perform skill might be the one social skill I'd keep, as I would assume that playing a bard does not impart any actual musical talent...

Not comfortable with role-playing, then simply use "roll for it" for all resolutions. You could still probably role-play some encounters that the players are interested in, but if there was an outcome involved, you'd resolve it with dice.

Janx

 

[DarkMaster]

To me, Gather Information is mostly about how well you go about getting the answers to questions. It is all about interpersonal interactions, and thus is based upon Charisma.

Knowing what to ask has nothing whatsoever to do with how persuasive you are. Instead, it is a matter of Intelligence or Wisdom, depending on the question.

A 6th level bard may be great with personal interactions, but not so hot with deductive reasoning that woudl take him to ask the right questions.

But since he took some ranks in GI he trained himself and knows a few tricks to get the info he wants. At 6 level with GI max out and 17 Cha for example you can have something like 10 in GI. So 70% of your skill come from training and experience. Last time I tried this way with an orc it gave me nothing, lets try another approach with this one. Intelligence and wisdow will only help you determining what type of info you want.

Charisma is very important for GI. I never really trained at GI and I am pretty good at it. Very often I sit with someone I never or barely met before and I will be able to get from them information they never told to good friend or family member. People have a tendency of trusting me and feel comfortable and secure with me, and that has nothing to do with Intelligence or wisdom it is all charisma and a few years training at high school (15 years ago).

 

[DarkMaster]

Ah yes, the Social Crutch skills.

I tend to concur with the use of Gather Information to represent abstract trolling for information. Ie. "My character spends the day hitting the taverns, looking to learn more about Lord Whatsisface"

It seems like, in most cases, all the social skills end up working best when used in this fashion. Basically the player states an attempt at an effect and rolls the dice for the outcome. As opposed to the player role-playing the encounter to see if he is successful.

I almost think the two methods are contradictory. Basically, as a GM, you should decide which method you will use and eliminate the other. Like role-playing encounters and dislike "rolling for it" then eliminate the social skills. In this method, it would be up to the player's role-playing skills and DM abjudication to determine what happens next. The Perform skill might be the one social skill I'd keep, as I would assume that playing a bard does not impart any actual musical talent...

Not comfortable with role-playing, then simply use "roll for it" for all resolutions. You could still probably role-play some encounters that the players are interested in, but if there was an outcome involved, you'd resolve it with dice.

Janx

It is very difficult to role play a 3 hours conversation with someone. IMC I remember the rogue when she was 2nd level. The party was travelling with the local militia and during the 3 hour trip to a camp that had been attacked by an unknown enemy she discussed with the captain and tried to obtain as much as possible info about the village and some inhabitants.

If I am well trained in GI and know that I have 3 hours I will not jump to the question right away. I will soften him up with all kind of non related discussion to make the captain like me then I would go and reveal some useless stuff about myself to make him feel that I trust him and that we are sharing info. More often than not the person will start revealing stuff then you try to insert your question while still making the person confortable. This kind of scenario is almost impossible to role play with your DM and will take 3 hours of game time. She rolled the dice got a fairly high number, I did a two three sentence resume of the conversation and listed all the important information she gathered from the captain. I feel this was much more representative of the interaction between Zia the 2nd level Rogue with max out GI and 15 Cha and that 2nd level warrior with no sense motive and fairly average WIS, then if my wife would have tried to pull the trick on me.

In a few minutes the rogue got all the info the party needed without having the rest of the party leave the table because they won't have anything to do for the next 3 hours, while my wife and I were role playing.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

In my notes, I keep a running list of current rumors. These rumors are listed according to how prevalent they are in the taverns, at the docks, etc. The more commonplace the rumor, the lower the DC. Some of them are just flavor bits. Lady So-and-so entertaining Lord Whats-his-name after hours. Some of them are clues to possible side quests. All of them have a set DC.

When a PC want's to gather information, they tell me what information they are looking for, then they roll. Based on their roll, they get a portion of the info they were looking for, and some of the current rumors in the area. I find that this does a good job of simulating an evening-long trove in the docks and taverns for info. You get some of what you wanted to know, and some stuff you were never interested in in the first place.

As far as "my guy would have known to ask the right questions" I don't buy that at all. Just as I don't buy "my guy would be smart-enough know about that AoO, even though I forgot" or any of the other lines of that reasoning. Barring spells like Suggestion or Dominate Person, the player makes all the decisions for a PC, and deals with the consequences of those decisions.

 

[Darth K'Trava]

Basically what we do, if stuck, is to get the gist of the question we want to ask and then roll a Gather Info check to see if the character would phrase it much better than the player.