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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 5653224" data-attributes="member: 87792">Indeed you are.  And every time you do, it is pointed out why you are wrong.How about spending no action to change your stance and then just using a basic attack?  Is that simpler?  Because it's what people who want simple mechanics do with knights. Which is adding overheads to the people that don't want them.That each power is different.  Or at least has a different name.  And having different ones just makes it fiddlier.Um.  No.  People find stances simpler.  Not everyone does  But many do.  You are doing your best to ignore this.  And presenting them in the worst possible light.Shall we have a look at the numbers?Barbarian At Wills vs Slayer MBA.Assume Howling Strike from the Barbarian (as the best overall damage At Will - no drawbacks) and Battle Wrath Stance from the Slayer.  Arm both with a Maul.  The Barbarian does strength based damage and gets +d6 damage.  The Slayer does strength based damage, gets +dex + 2 damage, and gets a further +1 to hit.  More accuracy and more damage (and better Opportunity Attacks).  And normally more AC as well - unless the Barbarian has a dex of 16 or more and chooses to bump that, remembering that only Whirling Slayers are Dex secondary.  (Although the Barbarian does get Rageblood vigor as its counterbalance).  At higher level, the slayer damage increases, they get free bonusses to saves, Battle Guardian scales, and possibly a few things I've forgotten.Fighter vs KnightIt's closer.  Cleave vs Cleaving Assault.  The Knight has better AC - plate + shield vs scale + shield.  Defender Aura at low levels is more useful than marks (at higher levels not so much) and Battle Guardian is an Opportunity Attack vs Combat Challenge being an interrupt.  Higher levels they get things like free initiative bonusses, and bonusses to damage of weapon rolls.  Covering argument.  The challenge is better, the AC is better, they get to threaten more people than just one, the damage is better, they get free initiative bonusses.  The only place they lose out on is Combat Superiority - the OA that is accurate and stops people moving.  And that OA doesn't IME trigger anything like as often as the interrupt.This is an active nerf on the knight, the slayer, the scout, and the hunter.  There is absolutely no reason you need to wait for combat to break out for a knight to go into a stance under the Rules as Written and he can spend a minor every few minutes to renew it as an at will.  And under the Rules as Intended, it would be impossible to use one Ranger At Will Stance if you had to wait for combat to put it up.  Therefore Knights starting in stance (and with Defender Aura running) any time they expect trouble (which is pretty much any time they have a shield or sword in hand, and a lot of times they don't) is to be expected.Now if you want to make the fighter draw his sword and take his shield off his back at the start of combat it might be fair to have the Knight not in stance and without the aura running as well.  But that's an exceptional combat (and even then it would depend on the reason - if it was helping someone across a rope bridge in hostile terrain then the Knight would still be in stance with aura up - it's just if they thought they were completely safe when he wouldn't).This is why I am looking forward to the Essentials Sorceror.  So that there is a spellcaster that's as simple to grock as the swordswingers.</blockquote>

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