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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Gencon: Any non-Essentials content coming up?
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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 5655192" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>Nod. And, while that does illustrate how Essentials provides choices that, once made, can yield a simpler character, it also illustrates how the idea that Essentials provides meaningful choices for characters wanting different levels of complexity is a bit off. </p><p></p><p>If you want to play a Warrior or a sneaky opportunist rather than a spell-caster in Essentials-only, you have no choice when it comes to the complexity and level of choice of your character - you will be playing one of the most simplistic characters in the game. Conversely, if you want a divine or arcane character, you'll have a modest range of choice when it comes to complexity, with arcane offering the most choice-rich class.</p><p></p><p>Chargen may or may not take too long, but it comes up again each time you level up - and it affects & informs your entire play experience. And, the thing about optional complexity is that it's not really optional - you have to wade through it all to choose whether to use it or not (or how much).</p><p></p><p></p><p>Yep. That's complexity, in the sense I'm using. It's objective, and it has definite implications for an RPG. More complexity means more potential for abuse, more potential for confusion and 'trap' choices, and a longer learning curve.</p><p></p><p>Also a dictionary definition, but a much more subjective one. I don't find complex RPGs hard to grasp on the whole. I do notice how much harder they can be to teach, though. Essentials does a good job of breaking up the learning curve - if you use a successively more complex classes. It does require more total effort to learn, probably, but it can come in chunks, making it more paletable. OTOH, the fact it requires some 'un learning' to get through is also an issue... </p><p></p><p>I've introduced a fair number of players to 4e, and have started using Essentials for that purpose. Invariably, genuinely new (and often young) players had no trouble picking up 4e, and not apreciably more or less trouble with Essentials. Returning AD&Ders, OTOH, it's like night & day. 4e mystified and even outraged them, Essentials delivers on their expectations and they can deal with it. I have yet to see a lapsed AD&Der make the Essentials-demo-to-4e-campaign transition, though.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 5655192, member: 996"] Nod. And, while that does illustrate how Essentials provides choices that, once made, can yield a simpler character, it also illustrates how the idea that Essentials provides meaningful choices for characters wanting different levels of complexity is a bit off. If you want to play a Warrior or a sneaky opportunist rather than a spell-caster in Essentials-only, you have no choice when it comes to the complexity and level of choice of your character - you will be playing one of the most simplistic characters in the game. Conversely, if you want a divine or arcane character, you'll have a modest range of choice when it comes to complexity, with arcane offering the most choice-rich class. Chargen may or may not take too long, but it comes up again each time you level up - and it affects & informs your entire play experience. And, the thing about optional complexity is that it's not really optional - you have to wade through it all to choose whether to use it or not (or how much). Yep. That's complexity, in the sense I'm using. It's objective, and it has definite implications for an RPG. More complexity means more potential for abuse, more potential for confusion and 'trap' choices, and a longer learning curve. Also a dictionary definition, but a much more subjective one. I don't find complex RPGs hard to grasp on the whole. I do notice how much harder they can be to teach, though. Essentials does a good job of breaking up the learning curve - if you use a successively more complex classes. It does require more total effort to learn, probably, but it can come in chunks, making it more paletable. OTOH, the fact it requires some 'un learning' to get through is also an issue... I've introduced a fair number of players to 4e, and have started using Essentials for that purpose. Invariably, genuinely new (and often young) players had no trouble picking up 4e, and not apreciably more or less trouble with Essentials. Returning AD&Ders, OTOH, it's like night & day. 4e mystified and even outraged them, Essentials delivers on their expectations and they can deal with it. I have yet to see a lapsed AD&Der make the Essentials-demo-to-4e-campaign transition, though. [/QUOTE]
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Gencon: Any non-Essentials content coming up?
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