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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Marshall" data-source="post: 5661204" data-attributes="member: 765">Uh, yeah. Thats the debate. Another place, another time.  Quite a few, not only did they waste a crapload of design time creating a pale reflection of an existing class, they had to go back and redefine the orginal class to show a distinction. Not only are they wasting time on the Warpriest, they are wasting time renaming the Cleric into the Templar.Garbage. Stances are, inarguably, nothing more than a complication to the system that adds exactly zero to the play experience. I said it before, the "complexity", term used very loosely, of base 4e is that your at-wills are NOT your basic attacks when they should be. Hammer Hands, Poised Assault, Battle Wrath should all be at-wills that can be used as basic attacks. Power Strike is so much a failure that even in the class it was introduced they had to keep piling class features on it to keep it relevant. PS is a decent 1st level encounter power, again, done right it would be the first in a series of encounter powers that naturally grow like other encounter powers. There is nothing in the power that forced them to build a new class around it.No, Psionics broke new ground. It added to the breadth of 4e. Even if you didnt like it, or it didnt work right(it doesnt), it wasnt a rehash of what already came before.E-classes take the same design space, the same ideas, toss out the standard 4e mechanic and start over. If thats not a new edition, I dont know what is, but aside from that, the best that could be said for them is that they do the same thing a different way. Does that expand the game? Are your creative juices flowing? Dozens of new PC ideas? Haha. You miss the point, Slayer and Knight and the rest of the e-builds are garbage not because they are simple and/or easy-to-play, its because they break design rules without adding anything new, they are individual silos that dont expand the greater game and as an effect of the previous two every second spent on them is another second spent not making the game better.  Then you arent paying attention, The number of Dragon articles not dedicated to essentials in the last sixth months can be counted on one hand, HoS is entirely e-class content with only accidental lip-service paid to the Wizard/Cleric and have you seen the Bladesinger? Does disaster mean anything to you? You dont think that the time wasted on creating the new e-classes wouldnt have been spent improving the other part of the 4e system? Because of the new design of the e-classes, support for the Slayer doesnt carry over, support for the Knight doesnt carry over, support for the Theif, Scout, Hunter, Sentinel....doesnt carry over....</blockquote>

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