Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Gencon News and Updates Thread (with links!)
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="El Mahdi" data-source="post: 5651620" data-attributes="member: 59506"><p>In my experience, such displays of intense defensiveness and indignity usually mean there's a kernel of truth in the observation. Especially when there is no "bullying" taking place.</p><p> </p><p>As far as intimating that you might have an ulterior motive based on a bias towards Pathfinder...Yes, Dannager was off base. Though not completely his fault, it is typical for Dannager and consistent with his obvious bias. Go over Dannager's past posts and you can see for yourself. But as the results and accuracy of your reporting is your responsibility, I feel his response was understandable and not requiring an apology. Whether you consider it fair or not, the bar for accuracy and non-bias is much higher for your medium and profession, than it is for Dannager's posts. The weight of responsibility lies with you, not him (or at least to very different degrees).</p><p> </p><p>As to the articles themselves:</p><p> </p><p>ICv2 doesn't make any claims or draws any conclusions as to what the data means. They simply post the "publishing" information for the quarter. I don't see anything wrong with their article, information, or integrity.</p><p> </p><p>Technically though, your article's title is not accurate. <em>"Paizo Publishing beats Wizards of the Coast in sales and Ennies"</em> should have been <em>"Pathfinder publishing beats D&D publishing in sales and Ennies"</em>. You compared Paizo publishing to Wizards of the Coast, and not to D&D. Though we don't have numbers, it's probably a safe bet that since WotC is much more than D&D, Paizo is likely not outselling "Wizards of the Coast". More likely is that WotC brings in revenue orders of magnitude larger than Paizo...</p><p> </p><p>Then in the article you say: <em>"Pathfinder is now outselling Dungeons & Dragons"</em>.</p><p> </p><p>You don't know if that statement is accurate or not either, therefore you shouldn't be making it. As said before, the only thing we know is that <em>book</em> sales of Pathfinder are greater than <em>book</em> sales of D&D. But ICv2 doesn't take into account DDI, of which they, you, and everybody except WotC have no numbers on. DDI is a part of "Dungeons & Dragons", and therefore is part of the above statement you made. And since you don't know what DDI brings in, you don't really know if Pathfinder is really outselling D&D.</p><p> </p><p>Also, as a "journalist" you know that words matter. Stating it the way you did: "Pathfinder is <em><strong>now</strong></em> outselling Dungeons & Dragons" - creates the picture that Pathfinder has been out to catch D&D, finally has, and implies that this may be the new status quo. More accurately and without "spin", you should have said: "Pathfinder <em>books</em> are <em><u>currently</u></em> outselling Dungeons & Dragons <em>books</em>" or "Pathfinder <em>books</em> outsold Dungeons & Dragons <em>books</em> <em><u>during the last quarter</u></em>".</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>YES and YES.</p><p> </p><p>When presenting information from a source that may or may not be accurate - or only tells part of the story - then YES, you absolutely should qualify it in your reporting. And if the source is unimpeachable, then you should show why that is true also. Not being complete, accurate, and showing all sides of an issue, is quite normally going to raise questions of bias. The perception of bias on the part of your readers is not the fault of your readers...it's wholly yours alone. Get angry and defensive about that all you want, rail to the sky about it's unfairness, but it won't change a thing: the accuracy of your reporting and it's reception by your readers is completely your responsibility.</p><p> </p><p>But, I don't think this is about whether ICv2 is accurate or not. I think it's more important whether or not you accurately represented the ICv2 report - and I don't believe you did.</p><p> </p><p>Now in all fairness, your level of accuracy (or inaccuracy) is no greater or less than what's common in reporting today - for both mainstream journalism and internet journalism. Whether that signifies a lack of journalistic integrity or not is something that's highly subjective. Though personally, I think it's normal for the day...but I also think that's a damn shame. Aiming to emulate the most common denominator isn't necessarily bad, but in my opinion is far from laudatory. Reporting should be about the facts and accuracy, and then within that framework be entertaining - but "Reporting" is not "Creative Writing". Save the spin and creative writing for editiorials and blogs.</p><p> </p><p>All in all, I find your articles okay. You lack a bit of attention to detail, and the issues discussed above seem relatively common in your reporting also - but as I said before, that seems par for the course as pertains to todays reporting standards. If you want to be just Okay, that's fine and completely your choice. But if you want to be considered "Good", you may want to consider some of what's been said in this thread.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>P.S.: I think Paul Giamatti would be perfect for the Gary Gygax movie also.<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="El Mahdi, post: 5651620, member: 59506"] In my experience, such displays of intense defensiveness and indignity usually mean there's a kernel of truth in the observation. Especially when there is no "bullying" taking place. As far as intimating that you might have an ulterior motive based on a bias towards Pathfinder...Yes, Dannager was off base. Though not completely his fault, it is typical for Dannager and consistent with his obvious bias. Go over Dannager's past posts and you can see for yourself. But as the results and accuracy of your reporting is your responsibility, I feel his response was understandable and not requiring an apology. Whether you consider it fair or not, the bar for accuracy and non-bias is much higher for your medium and profession, than it is for Dannager's posts. The weight of responsibility lies with you, not him (or at least to very different degrees). As to the articles themselves: ICv2 doesn't make any claims or draws any conclusions as to what the data means. They simply post the "publishing" information for the quarter. I don't see anything wrong with their article, information, or integrity. Technically though, your article's title is not accurate. [I]"Paizo Publishing beats Wizards of the Coast in sales and Ennies"[/I] should have been [I]"Pathfinder publishing beats D&D publishing in sales and Ennies"[/I]. You compared Paizo publishing to Wizards of the Coast, and not to D&D. Though we don't have numbers, it's probably a safe bet that since WotC is much more than D&D, Paizo is likely not outselling "Wizards of the Coast". More likely is that WotC brings in revenue orders of magnitude larger than Paizo... Then in the article you say: [I]"Pathfinder is now outselling Dungeons & Dragons"[/I]. You don't know if that statement is accurate or not either, therefore you shouldn't be making it. As said before, the only thing we know is that [I]book[/I] sales of Pathfinder are greater than [I]book[/I] sales of D&D. But ICv2 doesn't take into account DDI, of which they, you, and everybody except WotC have no numbers on. DDI is a part of "Dungeons & Dragons", and therefore is part of the above statement you made. And since you don't know what DDI brings in, you don't really know if Pathfinder is really outselling D&D. Also, as a "journalist" you know that words matter. Stating it the way you did: "Pathfinder is [I][B]now[/B][/I] outselling Dungeons & Dragons" - creates the picture that Pathfinder has been out to catch D&D, finally has, and implies that this may be the new status quo. More accurately and without "spin", you should have said: "Pathfinder [I]books[/I] are [I][U]currently[/U][/I] outselling Dungeons & Dragons [I]books[/I]" or "Pathfinder [I]books[/I] outsold Dungeons & Dragons [I]books[/I] [I][U]during the last quarter[/U][/I]". YES and YES. When presenting information from a source that may or may not be accurate - or only tells part of the story - then YES, you absolutely should qualify it in your reporting. And if the source is unimpeachable, then you should show why that is true also. Not being complete, accurate, and showing all sides of an issue, is quite normally going to raise questions of bias. The perception of bias on the part of your readers is not the fault of your readers...it's wholly yours alone. Get angry and defensive about that all you want, rail to the sky about it's unfairness, but it won't change a thing: the accuracy of your reporting and it's reception by your readers is completely your responsibility. But, I don't think this is about whether ICv2 is accurate or not. I think it's more important whether or not you accurately represented the ICv2 report - and I don't believe you did. Now in all fairness, your level of accuracy (or inaccuracy) is no greater or less than what's common in reporting today - for both mainstream journalism and internet journalism. Whether that signifies a lack of journalistic integrity or not is something that's highly subjective. Though personally, I think it's normal for the day...but I also think that's a damn shame. Aiming to emulate the most common denominator isn't necessarily bad, but in my opinion is far from laudatory. Reporting should be about the facts and accuracy, and then within that framework be entertaining - but "Reporting" is not "Creative Writing". Save the spin and creative writing for editiorials and blogs. All in all, I find your articles okay. You lack a bit of attention to detail, and the issues discussed above seem relatively common in your reporting also - but as I said before, that seems par for the course as pertains to todays reporting standards. If you want to be just Okay, that's fine and completely your choice. But if you want to be considered "Good", you may want to consider some of what's been said in this thread. P.S.: I think Paul Giamatti would be perfect for the Gary Gygax movie also.:) [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Gencon News and Updates Thread (with links!)
Top