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Message: <blockquote data-quote="fusangite" data-source="post: 1927755" data-attributes="member: 7240">As I understand it, there were two basic medieval doctrines regarding religious war: the Aquinan doctrine (that argued that grace completed sovereignty) and the Ostiensian doctrine, reflected in the Donation of Constantine (that all sovereignty was contingent upon the Pope). In the post-crusade later medieval period, the Ostiensian doctrine gained favour and formed the basis of early policy in the Americas, where mass, sometimes forced conversions took place, sometimes entailing the baptism of over 10,000 people per day in the Mexico Valley.EDIT: One can similarly look at the early medieval period with the Frankish policy of converting the Frisians and Saxons; to compel conversion at one point, Charlemagne executed 5000 Saxons at one time. Today, the EU gives out awards in his name. Furthermore, many conversions in early medieval Europe were achieved through forcibly imposed treaties requiring either mass baptisms or proxy baptisms such as the conversion of the Norwegian and Danish invaders of England in the 9th and 10th centuries and a number of Slavic kingdoms in Eastern Europe.While I agree that the high medieval period favoured the Aquinan doctrine and shyed-away from forcible mass conversions, I don't agree that this policy can be generalized to the whole of the Middle Ages. The Spanish Inquisition, the extinguishing of all sovereign states in the Americas by papal bull in 1494 and the mass conversions of the Cortes era all point to a late medieval policy that returned to early medieval views concerning conversion and sovereignty. In my post, I was also alluding to a much more recent non-medieval phenomenon of 19th and 20th century Indian residential schools in British North America when the colonial government kidnapped and forcibly baptized all of the children in numerous villages throughout what is today Canada. While I am happy to concede that the high medieval period had a high level of respect for non-Christian sovereignty and baptism as a free choice, I think it is unfair to generalize this to the whole of the Middle Ages.Agreed. But again, your examples come from the peak of the Aquinan doctrine of sovereignty. I have no dispute with your characterization of the period from 1100-1300 but the Middle Ages runs, in most people's minds, starting anywhere between 310 and 550 and ending anywhere between 1450 and 1550.Not in pre-modern societies they didn't.Really? Which ones?Agreed. But it is true that all sensory abilities do come off it and at least we have strong scientific evidence regarding smell and colour blindness and less strong evidence regarding perception of sounds and sights upon which one is not concentrating.</blockquote>

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