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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pawsplay" data-source="post: 5555315" data-attributes="member: 15538">Oh, please. You're so oppressed, right? Look, I can't think of a single instance in this entire thread where someone has made the argument you claim they are making. Everyone agrees men are stronger than women. Everyone.What has not been demonstrated is that there is a good real-life or dramatic reason why this should translate into a large numeric difference in "Strength." A small difference already generates all you need and more. Another really terrible example. You take a much larger group of men to a smaller group of women, and the men are at least as self-selecting for athletic ability, if not moreso. On top of that, men are culturally influenced to exercise for power, which means men are going to be recreationally hitting the barbells at much higher rates than women. Do you simply refuse to believe that natural strength differences between men and women are not hugely modulated by self-selection, cultural differences, and opportunities for fair comparisons? Because that's really the impression I'm getting. Would you please clarify what exactly you're trying to prove?Do you specifically want to claim men should get a +4 or more Str bonus relative to women in terms of lifting power? Do you want to quibble with my claim that part of the lifting difference reflects greater mass and overall muscle power in the male body, rather than an outright difference in athleticism? If so, do you want to quibble for one point, two, or all three?Given the rather artifical nature of ability scores in D&D, I think the burden of proof is to demonstrate even one point of difference, much less two and a whole +1 bonus on checks. Lifting strength is not even a debate; everyone agrees men lift more. Since D&D already agrees larger creatures lift more, I think we can chalk that up to a lack of detail in an area that, frankly, no one cares all that much about.</blockquote>

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