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Message: <blockquote data-quote="thefutilist" data-source="post: 9851004" data-attributes="member: 7044566">So talking specifically about Apocalypse World as I would run it. The problem with John’s explanation is that the set up and follow through aren’t ‘necessarily’ the connected parts. The connected part is the conflict trigger, which a lot of the time will be activated on the PC side. When you do X then roll.In the examples John gives, he’s both (1) not giving us a lot of context to determine position (2) coming in so hot he’s almost framing things like a saving throw. You sneak into the garage but there's Plover right there, about to notice you any second now. What do you do? Let’s say I point a gun at him and press my finger to my lips. I’m going aggro. Then yeah the miss could well be he just starts shouting “intruder” because the implication of the go aggro is that I want him to shut up. There are oppositional forces at play that come into play in response to what I want. If he sees me and I decide to seduce/manipulate, then depending on what I say, on a miss he might not be shouting “intruder” at all. The action I take is what gives the miss context.If I want to get into the garage without being seen then we ask if there is anyone would could see me. Yeah maybe, so that’s the fire.10: I get in unseen7-9: Plover is right there about to notice you any second now. What do you do?Miss: Plover sees you in the act of sneakingBoth the 7-9 and the miss are failures of me sneaking V Plovers perception.So the miss in this case just determines that you’re seen. It’s the subsequent narration, where the MC makes their move. Which could very well be, Plover starts screaming “intruder”. Now I’d probably pre-commit to him shouting ‘intruder’ before the roll because that’s what dice are for. Which does make me seem pedantic but I think the distinction (between the fact of of who wins and the narration) can matter more or less depending on circumstance, so it is worth noting. Especially if you’re playing a game where the narration can be given to either player or GM, or is up in the air about it.</blockquote>

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