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<blockquote data-quote="Guest 6801328" data-source="post: 6868771">Could you point those out, because I haven't picked that up from your arguments.&nbsp; Or do mean you're afraid they might inhibit play if you grant them latitude in the fiction?Is this equivalent to saying that players can't be trusted to use narrative latitude to contribute to the fiction?Then I wish you'd expand on this, because that's one thing I'm adamantly and zealously opposed to, to the extent that I object to descriptions of the Warlord class that require me to be impressed by their leadership and inspiration.<s></s><s>I addressed it.&nbsp; You're conflating the mechanical truth of the game with the &quot;fictional truth&quot; (doesn't that sound deliciously Orwellian?)&nbsp; &nbsp; There are two event paths: in the mechanical one Eloelle doesn't have the information, and she fails the saving throw, so she tells the truth that she doesn't know.&nbsp; In the narrative one she does have the information, and her Patron intercedes on her behalf (I like this better than just having her use her genius to make the save), and not only protects her from the spell but casts a kind of Suggestion on the caster so that he thinks his spell worked, all in order to protect his secret.&nbsp; In both cases the end result is the same: Eloelle says &quot;I don't know&quot; and the sorcerer believes her.</s><s></s><s>You may hate the narrative, but both paths of the story structure are consistent.&nbsp; And, seriously, how likely is this chain of events?</s><s></s><s></s><s></s><s>Absolutely, I totally agree with this.&nbsp; I think the onus is on the player who wants to do this to continue the fiction in a narratively rich way.&nbsp; To cite the example of the Sorcerer with the playing cards, if asked &quot;Why don't you use more cards?&quot; I would expect him to have a great answer.&nbsp; Now, there may be times when he stumbles and his answer is a little lame, but I'm ok with that if he's trying to tell a great story.</s><s></s><s></s><s></s><s>Actually, I think I sprained my arm with all that self-back-patting.&nbsp; Could I impose on you for some shiatsu?</s></blockquote>

[QUOTE="Guest 6801328, post: 6868771"] Could you point those out, because I haven't picked that up from your arguments. Or do mean you're afraid they [I]might[/I] inhibit play if you grant them latitude in the fiction? Is this equivalent to saying that players can't be trusted to use narrative latitude to contribute to the fiction? Then I wish you'd expand on this, because that's one thing I'm adamantly and zealously opposed to, to the extent that I object to descriptions of the Warlord class that require me to be impressed by their leadership and inspiration. [s][INDENT] [/INDENT] I addressed it. You're conflating the mechanical truth of the game with the "fictional truth" (doesn't that sound deliciously Orwellian?) There are two event paths: in the mechanical one Eloelle doesn't have the information, and she fails the saving throw, so she tells the truth that she doesn't know. In the narrative one she does have the information, and her Patron intercedes on her behalf (I like this better than just having her use her genius to make the save), and not only protects her from the spell but casts a kind of Suggestion on the caster so that he thinks his spell worked, all in order to protect his secret. In both cases the end result is the same: Eloelle says "I don't know" and the sorcerer believes her. You may hate the narrative, but both paths of the story structure are consistent. And, seriously, how likely is this chain of events? Absolutely, I totally agree with this. I think the onus is on the player who wants to do this to continue the fiction in a narratively rich way. To cite the example of the Sorcerer with the playing cards, if asked "Why don't you use more cards?" I would expect him to have a great answer. Now, there may be times when he stumbles and his answer is a little lame, but I'm ok with that if he's trying to tell a great story. Actually, I think I sprained my arm with all that self-back-patting. Could I impose on you for some shiatsu?[/s] [/QUOTE]

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