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<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 6869379" data-attributes="member: 6790260">Contrast with the description of Intelligence in the PHB: &quot;An intelligence check comes into play when you need to draw on logic, education, memory, or deductive reasoning.&quot; &quot;Other intelligence checks: communicate with a creature without using words; estimate the value of a precious item; pull together a disguise to pass as a city guard; forge a document; recall lore about a craft or trade; win a game of skill.&quot;So the question then is, are there reasonable/sensible situations where you would call someone a &quot;genius&quot; when they do not draw on logic, education, memory, or deduction to achieve that status?I'd argue yes. They're intuitive types; to reference the largely forgettable 2000 film Hollow Man, they don't need &quot;the B and C of it,&quot; skipping straight from A to D. Things just make sense to them, without any ability to explain how or why to others. The problem comes in trying to model that within the game--how can you reason well, without being particularly good at logic? I'd explain it as &quot;a very savvy player playing a realistically irrational character.&quot; They may or may not be foolish--that's sorta split between Int and Wis--but they have trouble consistently connecting actions to indirect consequences. E.g. most people would simply know that, rationally, you can't go shoot your neighbor's dog if it barks too much, as there are laws and etiquette and such. But a low-Int character might see the bright, clear line of &quot;I have a problem, this is the most direct solution that achieves that end&quot; and simply say LET'S DO IT, then cry, &quot;Why didn't you TELL me killing the neighbor's dog would make them angry?!&quot;It would be a real tricky thing to pull off, but I think it could be done. Especially if it's a Bard, Rogue, or Knowledge Cleric (or all three) who puts Prof and Expertise into a couple Int skills. +12 to a skill tends to outweigh a -3 from ability scores <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":P" title="Stick out tongue&nbsp; &nbsp; :P"&nbsp; data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":P" />There's also, of course, the &quot;Idiot Savant&quot; tack, which would be best represented in 5e as...probably a BG feature. You're terrible at most Intelligence-related activities, but in your narrow range of competence, you are beyond the ken of mortals.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 6869379, member: 6790260"] Contrast with the description of Intelligence in the PHB: "An intelligence check comes into play when you need to draw on logic, education, memory, or deductive reasoning." "Other intelligence checks: communicate with a creature without using words; estimate the value of a precious item; pull together a disguise to pass as a city guard; forge a document; recall lore about a craft or trade; win a game of skill." So the question then is, are there reasonable/sensible situations where you would call someone a "genius" when they [I]do not[/I] draw on logic, education, memory, or deduction to achieve that status? I'd argue yes. They're intuitive types; to reference the largely forgettable 2000 film [I]Hollow Man[/I], they don't need "the B and C of it," skipping straight from A to D. Things just [I]make sense[/I] to them, without any ability to explain how or why to others. The problem comes in trying to model that within the game--how can you reason well, without being particularly good at logic? I'd explain it as "a very savvy player playing a realistically irrational character." They may or may not be [I]foolish[/I]--that's sorta split between Int and Wis--but they have trouble consistently connecting actions to indirect consequences. E.g. most people would simply know that, rationally, you can't go shoot your neighbor's dog if it barks too much, as there are laws and etiquette and such. But a low-Int character might see the bright, clear line of "I have a problem, this is the most direct solution that achieves that end" and simply say LET'S DO IT, then cry, "Why didn't you TELL me killing the neighbor's dog would make them angry?!" It would be a real tricky thing to pull off, but I think it could be done. Especially if it's a Bard, Rogue, or Knowledge Cleric (or all three) who puts Prof and Expertise into a couple Int skills. +12 to a skill tends to outweigh a -3 from ability scores :P There's also, of course, the "Idiot Savant" tack, which would be best represented in 5e as...probably a BG feature. You're terrible at most Intelligence-related activities, but in your narrow range of competence, you are beyond the ken of mortals. [/QUOTE]

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