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<blockquote data-quote="TheCosmicKid" data-source="post: 6869609" data-attributes="member: 6683613">Where the hell did those examples come from?&nbsp; We were talking about players who see that zone of truth can get information out of the warlock (remember this was originally a discussion with TwoSix) and wondering why their characters wouldn't try to do that regularly.&quot;Intelligence measures mental acuity, accuracy of recall, and ability to reason.&quot;&nbsp; Is Eloelle's 5 Intelligence measuring her mental acuity, accuracy of recall, or ability to reason?&nbsp; No, per your narrative, those are all superlative.&nbsp; You have it measuring interference by an outside force that prevents her from communicating what she knows to others.&nbsp; And, while we're on the subject of things the book does not say, it does not say &quot;Intelligence measures interference by an outside force that prevents you from communicating what you know to others.&quot;&nbsp; That is a change you are making.Or it can be avoided entirely by keeping mechanics and narrative in synch, and you still get to tell stories exactly as creative -- more creative, even, because now you have the opportunity to tell stories where Eloelle's genius actually matters sometimes.&nbsp; You keep complaining about restrictions, but the biggest restriction here is what an Int of 5 artificially prevents Eloelle from doing.Yes, there are players out there who will try to ruin your fun out of spite.&nbsp; But you're constructing a false dichotomy.&nbsp; Noticing a plot hole your narrative creates, and even getting annoyed by it, is not necessarily a function of malice.&nbsp; Your narrative could genuinely be annoying.But per the narrative of the example character, she does succeed at the action declarations.&nbsp; The player says she knows most things.&nbsp; Lying about what she knows is a subsequent choice she makes.&nbsp; In fact, it is another action declaration, and may require a Deception check even when no zones of truth are involved.It's the difference between failing to kick down a door, and kicking down a door but rebuilding it afterward.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="TheCosmicKid, post: 6869609, member: 6683613"] Where the hell did those examples come from? We were talking about players who see that [I]zone of truth[/I] can get information out of the warlock (remember this was originally a discussion with TwoSix) and wondering why their characters wouldn't try to do that regularly. "Intelligence measures mental acuity, accuracy of recall, and ability to reason." Is Eloelle's 5 Intelligence measuring her mental acuity, accuracy of recall, or ability to reason? No, per your narrative, those are all superlative. You have it measuring interference by an outside force that prevents her from communicating what she knows to others. And, while we're on the subject of things the book does not say, it does not say "Intelligence measures interference by an outside force that prevents you from communicating what you know to others." That is a change you are making. Or it can be avoided entirely by keeping mechanics and narrative in synch, and you still get to tell stories exactly as creative -- more creative, even, because now you have the opportunity to tell stories where Eloelle's genius actually matters sometimes. You keep complaining about restrictions, but the biggest restriction here is what an Int of 5 artificially prevents Eloelle from doing. Yes, there are players out there who will try to ruin your fun out of spite. But you're constructing a false dichotomy. Noticing a plot hole your narrative creates, and even getting annoyed by it, is not necessarily a function of malice. Your narrative could genuinely be annoying. But per the narrative of the example character, she [I]does[/I] succeed at the action declarations. The player says she knows most things. Lying about what she knows is a subsequent choice she makes. In fact, it is another action declaration, and may require a Deception check even when no [I]zones of truth[/I] are involved. It's the difference between failing to kick down a door, and kicking down a door but rebuilding it afterward. [/QUOTE]

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