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<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 6875710" data-attributes="member: 16814">It's clearly a benefit in the fiction, else why would the player want to do it?&nbsp; You're redefining 'benefit' as a narrow subset of things that pre-agree with your argument.Yes, you've clearly said that you think the mechanics are for things not found anywhere in the rulebooks. There is ample evidence in your posts to this effect.&nbsp; I'm not saying that you're wrong in the way you play, just that you've modified the existing rules to meet with your concepts.&nbsp; The 'purpose of the rules' really has no bearing on my argument.&nbsp; ZoT has a mechanical effect, you've modified that effect to do the opposite of it's intent, and that's a houserule.I'm perfectly fine with the other examples Elfcrusher put forward and with Six's 8 strength strong hob.&nbsp; Both work to sell the outcomes of the mechanics as part of their narrative.&nbsp; LOL, however, works to subvert the mechanics with her narrative, and narrates failures as successes.&nbsp; It's that one aspect that causes many knock-on effects like with ZoT that require ad hoc rulings or, as you postulate, systemic changes to the rules to accommodate.&nbsp; You invoke houserules to allow the concept.&nbsp; End of point.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 6875710, member: 16814"] It's clearly a benefit in the fiction, else why would the player want to do it? You're redefining 'benefit' as a narrow subset of things that pre-agree with your argument. Yes, you've clearly said that you think the mechanics are for things not found anywhere in the rulebooks. There is ample evidence in your posts to this effect. I'm not saying that you're wrong in the way you play, just that you've modified the existing rules to meet with your concepts. The 'purpose of the rules' really has no bearing on my argument. ZoT has a mechanical effect, you've modified that effect to do the opposite of it's intent, and that's a houserule. I'm perfectly fine with the other examples Elfcrusher put forward and with Six's 8 strength strong hob. Both work to sell the outcomes of the mechanics as part of their narrative. LOL, however, works to subvert the mechanics with her narrative, and narrates failures as successes. It's that one aspect that causes many knock-on effects like with ZoT that require ad hoc rulings or, as you postulate, systemic changes to the rules to accommodate. You invoke houserules to allow the concept. End of point. [/QUOTE]

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