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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 2275162" data-attributes="member: 4937">No, I switched to all caps because you were flat out wrong in suggesting that the theory predated the reading of the Barsoom books.  Forget the larger issue of whether you agree with my big thesis here.   You can call my big thesis utter bunk, but don't use calling my big thesis utter bunk to stand for an argument against the specific case of whether ERB's barsoom books fit in the genera of 'boys stories' and whether just maybe all that moral instruction is intentional.    Which is itself not a relevant statement to the particular case being debated.  It may well be true that I'm wrong in general, but your claim that I'm wrong in general does not prove that I'm wrong here in the specific case of ERB's Barsoom tales.OK, fine.  You don't connect the two.  That has nothing to do with whether or not in this case 'Princess of Mars' has rather obvious moral instruction elements.And that is simply not true, and shows that whether or not I'm completely wrong, you aren't even aware of what my argument is.Fine its just me that sees this.   That has nothing to do with whether or not ERB's intended the white and black skinned martians to be deliberate commentary on the state of race relations in early 20th century America, or whether or not Clint Eastwood's 'High Plains Drifter' has a strong supernatural theme - both of which I've spent more time arguing in the past few posts than anything to do with my definition of fantasy.Incoherent it may be given my limitations as a writer, but it is most certainly not flat-out absurd.   And seeing as I've been told that its flat out absurd that 'High Plains Drifter' has a supernatural element to it, and that its is flat out absurd that ERB's moral sentiments were coming out deliberately and strongly in his Barsoom stories, I'm not necessarily going to rely on someone else to tell me what is absurd or not.   Thanks for the advice though.HA!  Let me get this straight, you are busy redefining my words in ways I clearly didn't mean them, but that makes me a semantic wrangler.   I was forced to quote myself solely because you made the absurd charge that just because conventional moralists objected to ERB's text, that he couldn't possibly have elevated intentions, even though I myself had pointed out earlier that ERB's conformity to traditional mores had no bearing one whether his story was trying to convey some sort of moral instruction.  I don't expect you to agree with this, but at least acknowledging that I said it would be a start. I haven't seen you present an alternative interpretation.  For example, what do you think ERB is trying to communicate to the reader during the worship services to Tur in 'Mastermind of Mars'?  What attitude does the hero have when presented with these religious mysteries?  What attitude do you think ERB expects the reader to have to Dar Tarus's religious beliefs?  Is this attitude consistant with the other presentations of organized religion on Barsoom?  Is this attitude consistant with ERB's upbringing?  Is this attitude consistant with ERB's stated views?  By all means, if you think you've got a better understanding on the meaning of ERB's works, then come forward with it.UPDATE: Cool.  ERB's works are on the web, so I can give you a quick quote to go buy.Now of course, none of this relates directly to my big theory, but hopefully it squashes the claim that ERB didn't have any intention to make moral commentary merely because he was a writer of 'pulp fiction'.</blockquote>

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