Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Desdichado" data-source="post: 2278149" data-attributes="member: 2205">I decided it wouldn't hurt to put my money where my mouth is, and pony up an example of a very popular fantasy work that I do not consider to have any underlying symbolism or exploration of abstract principles made flesh.  Although I had previously abandoned this work in frustration several books ago, I now find myself going through them again as audiobooks from my local public library, so it's all pretty fresh in my mind.  For those concerned about such things, this post at this point will contain spoilers for the Wheel of Time series.What?  No symbolic good vs. evil?  It even has a freakin' Dark Lord and everything!  Yeah, well, the Dark One can't be used to explore what evil is, because other than some set-up, and a few diversions from time to time to make sure we don't completely forget him, he's hardly an important aspect of the story.  At least so far.  The story has been about Rand Al'Thor rising to power and trying to unite folks that are nominally "good" yet are very willful and fractious behind him.  Similarly, neither Rand nor any other character can really be said to be a virtue, vice or other such characteristic made flesh; certainly as characters they have virtues and vices, but they are not completely defined by them.That said, there are several themes that can be extracted from the books; some of them by the author's own admission.  But none of these themes makes the Wheel of Time into anything like a morality play except by twisting and stretching the available evidence farther than it really has any right to go.  Here's a few of the themes I think are part of the story:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">As alluded to above, people don't like to be united behind a single person, and people are stubborn, wilful and ambitious, even those who are nominally "good."  The Wise Ones of the Aiel and the Aes Sedai in particular have their own agendas for Rand, and intend to use him as much as they can.  The Whitecloaks have their own idea of what's right and what needs to be done, and nobody much else agrees with them.  Same for the Seanchan.  Yet all stand against the Dark One, or at least they would if they even believed him to be a serious threat.  This theme can perhaps best be encapsulated with the phrase, internal to the book, (and I'm paraphrasing since I don't remember the exact wording) "the paths of the heights are paved with daggers," alluding to the fact that once you become powerful and influential, there are people who can't wait to take you down, and others who can't wait to try and make you dance like a puppet.  Still, this theme hardly needs to be presented in a fantasy format.  Any history of Alexander the Great, in particular leading up to his ascension to the Macedonian throne through his uniting of all of Greece under his banner would of necessity have the same theme.  As would any work describing the rise to power of Julius Caesar, Adolf Hitler, Cesare Borge, Genghis Khan, or any other historical figure who rose from (relative) obscurity to stand like a giant in historical textbooks.  Indeed, instead of a theme of the books, this could almost simply be interpreted as exploring the logical conclusions of Rand's rise to power.  Certainly this theme can't be pressed into any type of morality play. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">What would it be like to be tapped on the shoulder some day and told, "hey, you're the guy who has to save the world.  And destroy it in the process, by the way."  Robert Jordan himself has stated that this is a theme of the books, although ironically, I think it's little explored.  Other than oft-repeated phrases about duty, responsibility and the burden they represent, this theme is surprisingly understated.  Again, no morality play fodder there. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">What would a culture be like if they had a historical remembrance of specifically men causing a major catastrophe?  Here, though, there's no "message" or symbolism inherent in this; rather, as Tolkien liked crafting languages, Jordan likes crafting ethnologies.  His exploration of the relationships between men and women are merely the logical follow-through of the Breaking of the World and what it meant to the survivors, nothing else. Granted, he does mention several times that "the greatest works of the Age of Legends were done by men and women working together" and does allude to the fact that the constant sexual, or more precisely, gender-related tension does more harm than good.  This is probably the closest thing to the idea of making abstract ideas personified and putting them in the story, but even here, I think that's shaky.  Maybe it'll be more firm once the series is complete.  Other than the occasional phrase mentioned above, and the cleansing of saidin requiring both Rand and Nynaeve working together, there's been little evidence in the book that men and women in harmony really would be any better than the status quo.  If anything, in some ways, the series seems to be forcibly pushing them farther apart. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">What is appropriate action during times of war.  This is especially touched upon during Perrin's POV time and his absurd wishy-washiness about axe or hammer, and the Way of the Leaf.  However, this is strongly contrasted with Rand and the Aiel, and their own history of following the Way of the Leaf and why it was abandoned, and why the Aiel don't just return to it.  If there's a message here, it certainly seems that Jordan is trying to argue both sides at once, which is indicative to me that he's not imparting any such message at all.  Besides, this hardly needs the fantasy genre to explore; Gary Cooper's Seargeant York did so much better, and any story about the homefront of the Vietnam War, for instance, could explore the same themes just as well, if not better. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">If you're young and powerful, you get lots of hawt chick action.  Yeah, I dunno if the fact that The Wheel of Time is a soap opera both in terms of plot elements but also in terms of characters all being young, beautiful, powerful and rich means anything or not.  I tend to think not.</li> </ul>Anyway, if Celebrim has even read The Wheel of Time then I'm sure he disagrees with my interpretation of it.  I'll not be so arrogant as to claim my interpretation is factual; it's just my interpretation.  However, his theory that a fantasy must be a morality tale only needs one work of fantasy that is not a morality tale to invalidate and disqualify his theory from being taken seriously, and my humble proposal is that The Wheel of Time is not one.  With a little bit of thought, I'm sure I could come up with many others, though.</blockquote>

Verification