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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Dannyalcatraz" data-source="post: 2298802" data-attributes="member: 19675">This is an aboslutely incorrect statement of my position:  I am not against definition!  I personally believer SF/F to be distinct from other genres, but I, like others, am struggling with the best way to define them.I am against the idea that a genre can only be defined by its storytelling styles or particular plot types (and that such is superior to "setting/trappings") BECAUSE various storytelling styles appear in all genres.ASSUMING the following is correct:We cannot define fantasy Zander and Andor do in part:...Since those 3 are clearly found in the majority of Westerns, Pulp adventures, Noir detective novels, etc.Nor is this definition of Sci-Fi a true definition:...Since, but for setting, you can find the same questions answered in, as I pointed out, Japanese historical fiction (and other) genres.What sets the Fantasy story apart from the Western or Pulp or Noir is "setting/trappings."  What sets Sci-Fi apart from Japanese Historical Fiction is "setting/trappings."Every plot formulation noted on this thread either has been or can be approximated/told in SF/F.We have YET to find a plot, narrative, storyline or any other factor unique to either presumptive genre. For instance, the novelized short-story, Asimov's "Nightfall" (1941, novelization in 1990 with the assistance of Robert Silverberg) opens with:They then set forth to tell a story about a 1000 year cycle of the rise and fall of civilization on their planet which is in a 6 star solar system (which, btw, matters).While this story is considered by many to be the quintessential SF story, the story it tells is about people and how they deal with discovery under an oppressive regime, as well as what actually causes the collapse of Kalgashi society every 1000 years.  It could just as well be a fictionalization about one of the various lost civilizations of Earth...the Anasazi, for instance.  Or the Mound People.  Or the builders of Micronesia's Nan Madol (a grouping of ancient, artificially made basalt islands).  Or the builders of Stonehenge.  What distinguishes Nightfall is the complex solar system...its setting.  In fact, the setting is the only thing that makes this particular story possible.Although historical fiction often falls under Sci Fi, a books like Edward B. Hanna's The Whitechapel Horrors (Sherlock Holmes vs Jack the Ripper) is generally NOT considered Sci-Fi or Fantasy- its a Mystery.  Nor would Margaret Mitchell's Gone With the Wind be called Sci-Fi by anyone's definition- its a Romance.  Fictionalization of history isn't inherently SF.Either find me something unique to SF/F that will encapsulate all the works of the genre and yet eliminate those outside of them OR accept that they are genres worthy of being considered literature DESPITE their chimeric natures.Edited to correct a spelling error...a BAD one!</blockquote>

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