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Genre Conventions: What is fantasy?
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<blockquote data-quote="Dannyalcatraz" data-source="post: 2303081" data-attributes="member: 19675"><p>1) </p><p></p><p>Yes, I have heard of tragicomedy- I don't see that as fully tragedy- I see that as a synonym for dark comedy.</p><p></p><p>2) </p><p></p><p>Anytime I prove that something exists outside of SF/F by a counterexample in another literary form, I de facto prove that it is not unique to SF/F. Simple logic. If SF/F and another form both contain a particular element, its NOT unique to SF/F.</p><p></p><p>I'm trying to work with you here, and you're making it difficult. :\ </p><p></p><p>3) </p><p></p><p>That is pure nonsense, logically speaking. All you're doing here is making "genre" have 1:1 conceptual identity with "unique element." By defining something as a genre, then, you are taking for granted that it is unique. Since you've already claimed that for a genre to have literary significance, it must have a unique element, then by merely existing as a genre (which IS a unique element), the genre has literary significance.</p><p></p><p>Which contradicts your next sentence.</p><p></p><p>4) </p><p></p><p>The XYZ formula works for ANY form of literature and for any ingredient. The Z is whatever makes that literature unique, thus giving a genre its literary value, by your standard.</p><p></p><p>5) </p><p></p><p>More logical nonsense. If something exists in more than one space, it is not unique. "Unigue" means sole, only...not rare. The mere fact that another work outside of genre "X" posesses "Z" quality means by force of logic that "Z" quality is not a unique quality of ANY genre. If it is not unique, then it fails to meet with your definition in quote #3), supra. If a non-F work contains a narrative of power, then by definition, narratives of power are not unique to F. "Mixed writing" <em>destroys</em> uniqueness.</p><p></p><p>6) </p><p></p><p>So, "Plot" being the particular sequence of events over which a story develops, "narrative" being the theme and message of the story..."content" being?</p><p></p><p>7) </p><p></p><p>I don't think SF/F should be defined solely as imagery. I just think that its as viable as any other definition we've found...which is to say not that viable...but it is also something that keeps cropping up. Barsoomcore's definition explicitly included it by saying that it explores 3 questions "in an unusual setting." When people assert that SF/F isn't just "setting/trappings" but then give me a definition that is different from another genre ONLY because of "setting/trappings," I have to point that out as a contradiction.</p><p></p><p>Simultaneously, like almost everyone on this thread, I am trying to find what it is that SF/F do that IS unique, so I occasionally take a stab at it.</p><p></p><p>8) </p><p></p><p>One crucial difference- those are all non-fiction disciplines. A working definition of "SF/F is the fiction of otherness (sentient beings outside of humanity)" still stands. They all deal with otherness within the confines of human psychology, wheras SF/F goes beyond. SF/F deal explicitly with minds that are not our own. A being that is effectively immortal, physically powerful, and blazingly intelligent (dragon, AI mechanical planet, demon, whatever) will act and react in ways that a puny mortal human being never would. Being beyond pain, injury or damage means you think differently. Existing in a time sequential reference frame opposite from all other beings (you live & travel backwards through time, ONLY) affects your actions- your cause is our effect.</p><p></p><p>BTW: <strong>Chair</strong> = any physical construct designed with the primary purpose of being sat upon- it is a tool for sitting. It may, like other tools, be pressed into service to perform other tasks. See also subcategory <strong>stool</strong>. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Dannyalcatraz, post: 2303081, member: 19675"] 1) Yes, I have heard of tragicomedy- I don't see that as fully tragedy- I see that as a synonym for dark comedy. 2) Anytime I prove that something exists outside of SF/F by a counterexample in another literary form, I de facto prove that it is not unique to SF/F. Simple logic. If SF/F and another form both contain a particular element, its NOT unique to SF/F. I'm trying to work with you here, and you're making it difficult. :\ 3) That is pure nonsense, logically speaking. All you're doing here is making "genre" have 1:1 conceptual identity with "unique element." By defining something as a genre, then, you are taking for granted that it is unique. Since you've already claimed that for a genre to have literary significance, it must have a unique element, then by merely existing as a genre (which IS a unique element), the genre has literary significance. Which contradicts your next sentence. 4) The XYZ formula works for ANY form of literature and for any ingredient. The Z is whatever makes that literature unique, thus giving a genre its literary value, by your standard. 5) More logical nonsense. If something exists in more than one space, it is not unique. "Unigue" means sole, only...not rare. The mere fact that another work outside of genre "X" posesses "Z" quality means by force of logic that "Z" quality is not a unique quality of ANY genre. If it is not unique, then it fails to meet with your definition in quote #3), supra. If a non-F work contains a narrative of power, then by definition, narratives of power are not unique to F. "Mixed writing" [I]destroys[/I] uniqueness. 6) So, "Plot" being the particular sequence of events over which a story develops, "narrative" being the theme and message of the story..."content" being? 7) I don't think SF/F should be defined solely as imagery. I just think that its as viable as any other definition we've found...which is to say not that viable...but it is also something that keeps cropping up. Barsoomcore's definition explicitly included it by saying that it explores 3 questions "in an unusual setting." When people assert that SF/F isn't just "setting/trappings" but then give me a definition that is different from another genre ONLY because of "setting/trappings," I have to point that out as a contradiction. Simultaneously, like almost everyone on this thread, I am trying to find what it is that SF/F do that IS unique, so I occasionally take a stab at it. 8) One crucial difference- those are all non-fiction disciplines. A working definition of "SF/F is the fiction of otherness (sentient beings outside of humanity)" still stands. They all deal with otherness within the confines of human psychology, wheras SF/F goes beyond. SF/F deal explicitly with minds that are not our own. A being that is effectively immortal, physically powerful, and blazingly intelligent (dragon, AI mechanical planet, demon, whatever) will act and react in ways that a puny mortal human being never would. Being beyond pain, injury or damage means you think differently. Existing in a time sequential reference frame opposite from all other beings (you live & travel backwards through time, ONLY) affects your actions- your cause is our effect. BTW: [B]Chair[/B] = any physical construct designed with the primary purpose of being sat upon- it is a tool for sitting. It may, like other tools, be pressed into service to perform other tasks. See also subcategory [B]stool[/B]. ;) [/QUOTE]
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