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Genre Conventions: What is fantasy?
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<blockquote data-quote="Dannyalcatraz" data-source="post: 2315475" data-attributes="member: 19675"><p>You clearly misunderstand my position.</p><p></p><p>My position is this: "once I show a single SF work with a certain characteristic, that characteristic exists within the set of all SF." means that the characteristic exists within the set, not within each member of the set. 0 (Zero) exists within the set of real numbers, yet has properties (under any mathematical system of which I'm aware) which are unique, nor do those unique characteristics remove it from the set of real numbers.</p><p></p><p>So, a work of SF may have property "X," placing property "X" within the set of all SF- but unless its unique to SF and a nearly universal feature of SF in general, it is not an essential property of SF, and cannot be used to define SF as a genre.</p><p></p><p>Example: Travel between worlds is pretty common in SF, but it isn't unique (you can find the theme in F), and it isn't required (for every 3 SF stories of interplanetary travel, I can probably name 2 stories that don't include interplanetary travel). While the theme of "interplanetary travel" is a part of the set of all SF- it is neither essential nor unique. Thus, a definition of SF cannot be structured: "SF is a genre about interplanetary travel."</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Look at a Venn Diagram as I described it in Post#23 (quoted Post#300, supra). Properly drawn, its 3 circles overlapping each other, forming a small, equilateral convexly-rounded triangle in the center with 3 other "triangles" (each with one concave side) formed on each side of the center triangle.</p><p></p><p>When a story is within that center area overlapped by SF, Horror and Fantasy,<em> it is still within the circle constrained by SF</em>- thus, it is still within the set of all SF. That same story can also be said to be a part of Horror and Fantasy as well, and the properties of the story can be said to be within the set of all Horror and the set of all Fantasy. What cannot be said of that story is that its fantastic or horrific elements define its SF-ness.</p><p></p><p>Elements within the overlapping areas do not help us define the genres because they are not exclusive to any genre. To define SF, Horror or Fantasy, we have to find those elements that exist outside of the overlaps, and when someone tries to use an element from an overlapping area to define one of those genres, it is perfectly valid to point out that problem.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Dannyalcatraz, post: 2315475, member: 19675"] You clearly misunderstand my position. My position is this: "once I show a single SF work with a certain characteristic, that characteristic exists within the set of all SF." means that the characteristic exists within the set, not within each member of the set. 0 (Zero) exists within the set of real numbers, yet has properties (under any mathematical system of which I'm aware) which are unique, nor do those unique characteristics remove it from the set of real numbers. So, a work of SF may have property "X," placing property "X" within the set of all SF- but unless its unique to SF and a nearly universal feature of SF in general, it is not an essential property of SF, and cannot be used to define SF as a genre. Example: Travel between worlds is pretty common in SF, but it isn't unique (you can find the theme in F), and it isn't required (for every 3 SF stories of interplanetary travel, I can probably name 2 stories that don't include interplanetary travel). While the theme of "interplanetary travel" is a part of the set of all SF- it is neither essential nor unique. Thus, a definition of SF cannot be structured: "SF is a genre about interplanetary travel." Look at a Venn Diagram as I described it in Post#23 (quoted Post#300, supra). Properly drawn, its 3 circles overlapping each other, forming a small, equilateral convexly-rounded triangle in the center with 3 other "triangles" (each with one concave side) formed on each side of the center triangle. When a story is within that center area overlapped by SF, Horror and Fantasy,[I] it is still within the circle constrained by SF[/I]- thus, it is still within the set of all SF. That same story can also be said to be a part of Horror and Fantasy as well, and the properties of the story can be said to be within the set of all Horror and the set of all Fantasy. What cannot be said of that story is that its fantastic or horrific elements define its SF-ness. Elements within the overlapping areas do not help us define the genres because they are not exclusive to any genre. To define SF, Horror or Fantasy, we have to find those elements that exist outside of the overlaps, and when someone tries to use an element from an overlapping area to define one of those genres, it is perfectly valid to point out that problem. [/QUOTE]
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