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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mark" data-source="post: 1619091" data-attributes="member: 5">I've noticed the opposite effect.  With the greater definition of the rules I've seen players less worried about how things will be adjudicated and more free to roleplay their characters.Oourph's general example only convinces me of his own situation and my own experience constrasts his.  The "Bluff" example is something that I, as DM, would have simply handled by taking a moment to remind the players that they can use the skill without ranks, with their own modifiers, and with whatever circumstance bonus I might be applying based on the situation and how they roleplay.  In my experience, if players are misinterpreting the rules, the DM needs to explain things a bit more and then jump back into the game.  No big deal.I won't debate anyone's experience, as I am confident that your depth of thought on this (and Oourph's) are valid and true.  I will however point out that your poll shows that most others manage to have games at various maturity levels without any trouble, myself included (and I've been doing it for thirty years with all incarnations of the rules).  You seem to be suggesting, however, that the best way for yourself and others who cannot manage this with the rules as written is an alternate ruleset that steers players and DMs to play more maturely than the games you have experienced.  While this is also perfectly valid as a solution, I have to tell you that I would likely find such a ruleset less flexible.  I have a feeling that no matter what the rules try to do in relation to steering the maturity level of the game, what you experience at the table will always be a product of how the rules are applied by the people occupying the chairs.If either of you ever get up to the Chicago area, let me know in advance and I'll see what I can do about including you  in one of my own game sessions.</blockquote>

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