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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Deadguy" data-source="post: 1625469" data-attributes="member: 2480">On the question of where to put sample DCs: I would most vehemently disagree that they deserve only to be in the DMG! As a player I need some idea of how the numbers on the character sheet relate to actual game play. Without knowing what a skill score means in comparison to what is required to achieve objectives, I have no idea just how good my character is, only a relative level of skill in comparison to other PCs. In 'real life' to develop my skill, I have undertaken many tasks, likely practised in a variety of cirsumstances, and talked with other skilled people. I have thus had the chance to see what my level of skill means in a range of situations. And that's what the sample DCs represent - a baseline that the player and DM can share so they can adjudge the effectiveness of characters.Of course the DM sets the final DC. But I do feel that either: <ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">he should start with the examples given and work outwards from that the DC for the specific circumstance being rolled for; or</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">say in advance that the rules as written for a skill don't fit his view at all, and provide an alternate baseline.</li> </ol>Otherwise we end up with those ludicrous situations where there are massive disconnects between what the player thinks his character can do, and what the DM thinks the character can do. I've seen that crop up in games, and PCs end up attempting ridiculous tasks, that if the player had the same knowledge as the character they would never attempt in a month of Sundays! Or you have PCs that hesitate to perform tasks which the DM knows is easy for them because he's given the wrong impressions entirely - and entirely accidentally too.Note that I am not saying that there can't be factors unknown to the characters - but that the characters (and thus the player) need some idea of what they think the difficulty is. I am afraid I have seen too many DMs that use this rules 'secrecy' as an excuse to manipulate the game unfairly.</blockquote>

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