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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Li Shenron" data-source="post: 2836201" data-attributes="member: 1465">Commander, your logic is flawless, but...You are assuming that the penalty should grow as the same rate as the level for the rule to be acceptable. You prove that LA achieves that and SKR proves that % penalty does not achieve that. But can you prove that achieving that is a good thing?SKR has some good point in saying that % has a flaw which LA doesn't have: the fact that most of the time the more powerful PC is not really penalized. But forgets to mention that:(1) that it is more fair to penalized all the time is his own assumption, a character penalized 30% of the time is still penalized on the average, which is not necessarily worse(2) LA itself has some a flaw which % doesn't: it makes it extremely difficult to play the character along a party with no LA, when the LA is high compared to the class levels (because of the HP problem)The point is that LA works very well only as long as it doesn't exceed +2. Higher LA require at least to play a high-level campaign, but still many people hate it. There are in fact attempts to make it hold better (UA optional rule for example).That said, I do not mind whether a system is imperfect, as long as it is reasonable. LA is very unfair in a vacuum, as it fails to make creatures with unual strong powers playable (e.g. Mind Flayers). But still I use it because it's better than nothing.ANYWAY <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> I wish to discuss the topic about gestalt classes used in the same game with normal single-class characters. It is not the same as multiclassing, and it is not the same as playing a race with ability bonuses and special powers. It is very different indeed. So what doesn't work with the other two, is not necessarily going to fail with gestalt. For instance, the ability bonuses of LA races tend to become less relevant at higher levels because they are fixed bonuses; I do not think that the benefit of gestalt becomes less at high levels, quite the contrary (think of the synergies)!Because you seem to have a much better grasp of math than me <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /> I'd definitely appreciate if you'd help calculating what would happen to a gestalt character with either methods, and to estimate if it's possible to devise a fair penalty.Engage! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /></blockquote>

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