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Message: <blockquote data-quote="tiornys" data-source="post: 4483138" data-attributes="member: 17633">Our group was down to 3 players (+ DM) from its normal 6 tonight, so we decided to try an experiment that the DM had been thinking about.  We created "elite PC's": we took normal PC's and applied class templates (DMG pp. 182-3) to them.  (This grants the second class's defense bonuses, weapon and armor proficiency, and class features, two skills from the second class, additional hit points, a saving throw bonus, and an action point. It also grants one at-will power, one encounter power of level or lower, one utility power of level or lower, and one daily power of level or lower from the second class.)  We then took them through several encounters designed for 6 PC's, with the aim of determining how close an elite PC was to the power level of two PC's.  The answer, at least for 3rd level PC's, is pretty close, possibly a little more powerful.In both creation and play, these characters reminded me strongly of 3.5 edition gestalt characters, except better balanced to each other.  I experimented by applying the Wizard template to a base Wizard, and I felt about even in power with the Paladin/Cleric and the Ranger/Rogue.Some rulings we made: <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The PC's get one action point per encounter, always.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">If you are forced to take the same skill by both your base class and template, you get a free skill focus in that feat.  This came up for both the Paladin/Cleric and the Wizard/Wizard.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The Paladin/Cleric had two uses of Channel Divinity per encounter, once from the Paladin's list, and once from the Cleric's.  If he had taken a Channel Divinity feat, he'd have been able to use that power with either or both of his CD uses.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The Wizard/Wizard got two implement mastery's, and two sets of free rituals.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The Wizard/Wizard did not apply spellbook to the template powers, so he had one daily that couldn't be altered, and a set of two dailies from which he prepared one each day.  Same with utilities.</li> </ul>Some questions to explore:  <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">How do Level 1 Elite PC's compare to normal L1 PC's?  With an extra at-will, encounter, and daily, and all the features from two classes, as well as an action point every encounter, I suspect they're significantly more powerful than two L1 PC's.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">How do Level 10 Elite PC's compare to normal L10 PC's?  At this point their gain from the template is proportionally less, since they still only have the one at-will, one encounter, one daily, and one utility from the secondary class.  However, the HP difference is greater, which might compensate.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">How does the power level compare at paragon tier (gain another encounter and utility) and epic tier (gain another daily and utility)?</li> </ul>Has anyone else experimented with this kind of play?  I'd love to have more input on the idea, especially if people have actual experience rather than just theorizing.  The PC's have more power than normal, but it seemed pretty simple to challenge those PC's with encounters designed for twice their number, and the combats played quite well.  It also did an excellent job of creating a 3rd edition or even 2nd edition feel to the multiclassed characters while keeping the single classed character on roughly the same power level.  I think it might be interesting to run a campaign with all PC's playing this kind of character.t~</blockquote>

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