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<blockquote data-quote="Jack Simth" data-source="post: 3344986" data-attributes="member: 29252">The listed order is pretty much the casting order; Foresight to not be flat-footed; Celerity to have an action when you want it.&nbsp; Time Stop (prefferably with a Greater Rod of Maximize Spell) to have the lesiure for the rest.&nbsp; Dimensional Lock to keep your target in place.&nbsp; Acid Fog (maximizeable) to hurt the target.&nbsp; Forcecage to keep the target in the area.Yeah, it's dispellable - there are three different elements which, if you remove one, removes the problem (remove Acid Fog -&gt; no damage, no problem; remove Forcecage -&gt; walk out, no problem; remove Dimensonal Lock -&gt; Teleport out, no problem).But as I mentioned, the warlock gets 9th level spell-type abilities.&nbsp; And it's still liable to take him two or three rounds to get out... during which time, he's effectively neutralized.&nbsp; Hope nobody else is relying on his presence.&nbsp; Now try getting out of it with a Rogue/Fighter, twice in a row, without being a pseud-caster (A Sorcerer with a Greater Rod of Maximize Spell can pull this off [with Greater Celerity for the full-round action to Metamagic the spell, rather than regular Celerity] two or three times per day).&nbsp; It's not.Sort of.&nbsp; It's a usefullness-curve issue.Combat Brutes are really good at low levels (where special abilities are usually &quot;meh&quot;, and the most convienient way to eliminate a challenge is a few hits from a weapon), or in certain types of adventures (endurance runs).&nbsp; At higher levels, not so much.Sneaks have a relatively flat usefulness curve (stealth is handy at any level; if your opponent can't find you, your opponent has a hard time properly defending against you).Full Casters are rather weak at the start (where spells are usually &quot;meh&quot;), but are really good at high levels (when you can fit three &quot;save or X&quot; spells into a round, where X basically results in neigh-certain defeat for your opponent - or even no save &quot;you're dead, chump&quot;, as described above).With Gestalt, you get to seamlessly combine two curves, and get the best of both; low-level Combat Brute usefullness with high-level Full Caster usefulness.Didn't see that in there, no.&nbsp; But when I plan, I tend to plan a bit ahead.&nbsp; I'd rather not have&nbsp; PC's retireing in the middle of a campaign; strains versimilitude somewhat that a group of four people, who've been through thick and thin, upon losing one of their number (in character due to ... something ... out of character, due to a reduced &quot;fun factor&quot; from being behind on the current usefulness curve), will suddenly trust this new outsider coming in on the scene with their lives on a regular basis.&nbsp;&nbsp; When you've kinda arranged for the usefulness curves to be comparatively flat, it happens less often.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Jack Simth, post: 3344986, member: 29252"] The listed order is pretty much the casting order; Foresight to not be flat-footed; Celerity to have an action when you want it. Time Stop (prefferably with a Greater Rod of Maximize Spell) to have the lesiure for the rest. Dimensional Lock to keep your target in place. Acid Fog (maximizeable) to hurt the target. Forcecage to keep the target in the area. Yeah, it's dispellable - there are three different elements which, if you remove one, removes the problem (remove Acid Fog -> no damage, no problem; remove Forcecage -> walk out, no problem; remove Dimensonal Lock -> Teleport out, no problem). But as I mentioned, the warlock gets 9th level spell-type abilities. And it's still liable to take him two or three rounds to get out... during which time, he's effectively neutralized. Hope nobody else is relying on his presence. Now try getting out of it with a Rogue/Fighter, twice in a row, without being a pseud-caster (A Sorcerer with a Greater Rod of Maximize Spell can pull this off [with Greater Celerity for the full-round action to Metamagic the spell, rather than regular Celerity] two or three times per day). It's not. Sort of. It's a usefullness-curve issue. Combat Brutes are really good at low levels (where special abilities are usually "meh", and the most convienient way to eliminate a challenge is a few hits from a weapon), or in certain types of adventures (endurance runs). At higher levels, not so much. Sneaks have a relatively flat usefulness curve (stealth is handy at any level; if your opponent can't find you, your opponent has a hard time properly defending against you). Full Casters are rather weak at the start (where spells are usually "meh"), but are really good at high levels (when you can fit three "save or X" spells into a round, where X basically results in neigh-certain defeat for your opponent - or even no save "you're dead, chump", as described above). With Gestalt, you get to seamlessly combine two curves, and get the best of both; low-level Combat Brute usefullness with high-level Full Caster usefulness. Didn't see that in there, no. But when I plan, I tend to plan a bit ahead. I'd rather not have PC's retireing in the middle of a campaign; strains versimilitude somewhat that a group of four people, who've been through thick and thin, upon losing one of their number (in character due to ... something ... out of character, due to a reduced "fun factor" from being behind on the current usefulness curve), will suddenly trust this new outsider coming in on the scene with their lives on a regular basis. When you've kinda arranged for the usefulness curves to be comparatively flat, it happens less often. [/QUOTE]

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