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<blockquote data-quote="StreamOfTheSky" data-source="post: 4568086" data-attributes="member: 35909">But this is not to challenge four level 21 characters, and CR is at least a bit relative.&nbsp; The OP said the party would likely fight this person pre-epic, so they won't have the epic feat and beginnings of epic casting that a level 21 party will have.&nbsp; I am sure that this NPC won't be worth even CR 20, but I could see him hitting 17-18 easily if sufficiently power gamed.He's meant to be a major villain.&nbsp; This means the party will likely be fighting &quot;on his terms,&quot; and hopefully he has other minions/allies to send at them first to lessen their high level spell counts.&nbsp; He'll need magic items and possibly buff spells to deal with flight, invisibility, maybe even etherealness, etc...&nbsp; But in the context of a dungeon/adventure, he could still be a challenge.That's my current favorite gestalt I'd like to play.&nbsp; But Factotem + wizard or psion is still better, for extra actions to cast/manifest spells/powers and auto-bypassing SR/PR, IMO.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="StreamOfTheSky, post: 4568086, member: 35909"] But this is not to challenge four level 21 characters, and CR is at least a bit relative. The OP said the party would likely fight this person pre-epic, so they won't have the epic feat and beginnings of epic casting that a level 21 party will have. I am sure that this NPC won't be worth even CR 20, but I could see him hitting 17-18 easily if sufficiently power gamed. He's meant to be a major villain. This means the party will likely be fighting "on his terms," and hopefully he has other minions/allies to send at them first to lessen their high level spell counts. He'll need magic items and possibly buff spells to deal with flight, invisibility, maybe even etherealness, etc... But in the context of a dungeon/adventure, he could still be a challenge. That's my current favorite gestalt I'd like to play. But Factotem + wizard or psion is still better, for extra actions to cast/manifest spells/powers and auto-bypassing SR/PR, IMO. [/QUOTE]

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