dammitbiscuit
First Post
You gain ALL the class features of both classes. Yes, this can get really broken, and your character will be left behind if you don’t take advantage of it. Enjoy sneak attacking with your twin strike, or whatever suits your fancy. Gestalt was always a high-powered, munchkin-oriented system, and if you want something somewhat more fair and balanced, there are Multiclass and Hybrid rules for you.
(My players and I had a perfectly fun time with Gestalt in 3.5, so while "Gestalt is BACK" may bring shudders of horror to some of you, these rules are for me, my players, and anyone else who enjoyed Gestalt or doesn't get quite enough "HOORAY!" factor out of 4e Hybrid/MC)
Stuff you get:
So, as stated, every class feature from both classes has to be written somewhere on your character sheet. You'll probably not want to use the official WotC ones. Just to clean things up and simplify your character sheet a bit, remove any TWO class features, or more if you really want to. I’m sure you’ll toss out fiddly little bits that you didn’t care about anyways; now you don’t even have to see them on your character sheet.
You get ONE at-will power from each class, except of course for Druid who gets a beast form and a non-beast at will. Warlocks will have to decide whether they want Eldritch Blast, Eldritch Strike, or their pact’s at-will power. When you level up, choose your Encounter, Utility, or Daily power from either class (but not both.)
You get all weapon and implement proficiencies, and your implements are transitive (yep, this is all just like a hybrid).
Take “the best of both worlds” from your class defense bonuses and from class skills. For example, a fighter/paladin would have +2 fort, +1 ref, +1 will. He would get Religion for free as well as 3 additional skills chosen from either skill list. While we’re talking about gaining piles of class skills, Multiclass feats work as normal except they do NOT give you a free skill training.
Stuff You Don't Get:
Even in Gestalt, there should be some parts where you are encouraged NOT to pick (main, squishy class) + (supertough class) for a bunch of free HP/defenses, and conversely, defenders are punished for schlepping on down to a softer class to add striker damage to their build. I’m sure dedicated munchkins will still find good reasons to, say, waste a Paladin’s HP, surges, and armor proficiencies on some tricky gestalt with Wizard that abuses History checks, or something.
You gain the WORST hp, surges per day, armor proficiencies, and shield proficiencies from either class. A DM might give you a 2 for 1 deal on armor and shield feats if he thinks that this deal is pretty rough for you, but he is thoroughly discouraged from doing so if you get class-based defenses such as swordmage warding or barbarian agility from either class. This is up to the DM on a case-by-case basis, though, and that’s as precise as the wording’s ever going to get. Different classes require different considerations as to what their defensive needs truly are.
Oh, and also before I forget:
Start with 1 extra feat. This ensures that even non-humans can start the game with an iconic or “must-have” feat for both classes.
Anything else I haven’t mentioned, such as Dilettante and the bonus at-will for being Human, work exactly like they would for a Hybrid character.
Suggested Builds
Dragonborn Paladin/Barbarian - you know you’ve always wished that a Paladin with a 2hander was worthwhile. Here you go.
Fighter/any defender - supar sticky. You’ll usually not want to combine other defenders, because they all require minor actions, which are annoying to run short on.
Artificer / Warlord - grant bonuses, grant attacks, grant actions, basically wield your party members like living weapons from a safe spot in the mid to back ranks.
Cleric/Shaman or Cleric/Bard - the healbot.
Ranger/Rogue - I’m predicting the highest, most boring DPR numbers from this build.
Gnome Warlock/Sorcerer - drop nukes on people, turn invisible when they get pissed. (Kim Jong Il’s wet dream, right here)
Halfling Rogue/Sorcerer or Rogue/Warlock - blast things, teleport into flanking positions, sneak attack with your dagger implement, or with eldritch strike
Invoker/Wizard - pretty obvious, pretty amazing
Druid/Shaman - WHY AM I DOING THIS TO MYSELF, EVERY TURN IS SO COMPLICATED
Important Considerations
Action economy. As mentioned before, a pure defender will usually want to be half-fighter, because he won’t want to run out of minor actions. Strikers that require minor actions are similarly incompatible.
You don’t always need ability score synergy. Sometimes it’s enough to pretty much be a member of Class A, while reaping the features and benefits of Class B and barely ever using Class B’s powers.
You are now eligible for twice as many class feats, but you only get 1 extra feat in this system. Good luck with those opportunity costs.
Be nice to your DM and try to cooperate with your party. If you render yourself immune to weapon damage, and can deal 12d12 damage to enemies in a close burst 10, expect that you're gonna get nerfed a tad so that your party members can play, too, and monsters can actually attack you (even if they need to roll a 20). Otherwise, have fun, and laugh hysterically at the pathetic abilities of non-gestalt heroes while you tackle level 4 solos at the start of your level 1 adventuring career!
So, people who liked gestalt in 3.5, or wish that Hybrid rules had more oomph, whaddaya think?
(My players and I had a perfectly fun time with Gestalt in 3.5, so while "Gestalt is BACK" may bring shudders of horror to some of you, these rules are for me, my players, and anyone else who enjoyed Gestalt or doesn't get quite enough "HOORAY!" factor out of 4e Hybrid/MC)
Stuff you get:
So, as stated, every class feature from both classes has to be written somewhere on your character sheet. You'll probably not want to use the official WotC ones. Just to clean things up and simplify your character sheet a bit, remove any TWO class features, or more if you really want to. I’m sure you’ll toss out fiddly little bits that you didn’t care about anyways; now you don’t even have to see them on your character sheet.
You get ONE at-will power from each class, except of course for Druid who gets a beast form and a non-beast at will. Warlocks will have to decide whether they want Eldritch Blast, Eldritch Strike, or their pact’s at-will power. When you level up, choose your Encounter, Utility, or Daily power from either class (but not both.)
You get all weapon and implement proficiencies, and your implements are transitive (yep, this is all just like a hybrid).
Take “the best of both worlds” from your class defense bonuses and from class skills. For example, a fighter/paladin would have +2 fort, +1 ref, +1 will. He would get Religion for free as well as 3 additional skills chosen from either skill list. While we’re talking about gaining piles of class skills, Multiclass feats work as normal except they do NOT give you a free skill training.
Stuff You Don't Get:
Even in Gestalt, there should be some parts where you are encouraged NOT to pick (main, squishy class) + (supertough class) for a bunch of free HP/defenses, and conversely, defenders are punished for schlepping on down to a softer class to add striker damage to their build. I’m sure dedicated munchkins will still find good reasons to, say, waste a Paladin’s HP, surges, and armor proficiencies on some tricky gestalt with Wizard that abuses History checks, or something.
You gain the WORST hp, surges per day, armor proficiencies, and shield proficiencies from either class. A DM might give you a 2 for 1 deal on armor and shield feats if he thinks that this deal is pretty rough for you, but he is thoroughly discouraged from doing so if you get class-based defenses such as swordmage warding or barbarian agility from either class. This is up to the DM on a case-by-case basis, though, and that’s as precise as the wording’s ever going to get. Different classes require different considerations as to what their defensive needs truly are.
Oh, and also before I forget:
Start with 1 extra feat. This ensures that even non-humans can start the game with an iconic or “must-have” feat for both classes.
Anything else I haven’t mentioned, such as Dilettante and the bonus at-will for being Human, work exactly like they would for a Hybrid character.
Suggested Builds
Dragonborn Paladin/Barbarian - you know you’ve always wished that a Paladin with a 2hander was worthwhile. Here you go.
Fighter/any defender - supar sticky. You’ll usually not want to combine other defenders, because they all require minor actions, which are annoying to run short on.
Artificer / Warlord - grant bonuses, grant attacks, grant actions, basically wield your party members like living weapons from a safe spot in the mid to back ranks.
Cleric/Shaman or Cleric/Bard - the healbot.
Ranger/Rogue - I’m predicting the highest, most boring DPR numbers from this build.
Gnome Warlock/Sorcerer - drop nukes on people, turn invisible when they get pissed. (Kim Jong Il’s wet dream, right here)
Halfling Rogue/Sorcerer or Rogue/Warlock - blast things, teleport into flanking positions, sneak attack with your dagger implement, or with eldritch strike
Invoker/Wizard - pretty obvious, pretty amazing
Druid/Shaman - WHY AM I DOING THIS TO MYSELF, EVERY TURN IS SO COMPLICATED
Important Considerations
Action economy. As mentioned before, a pure defender will usually want to be half-fighter, because he won’t want to run out of minor actions. Strikers that require minor actions are similarly incompatible.
You don’t always need ability score synergy. Sometimes it’s enough to pretty much be a member of Class A, while reaping the features and benefits of Class B and barely ever using Class B’s powers.
You are now eligible for twice as many class feats, but you only get 1 extra feat in this system. Good luck with those opportunity costs.
Be nice to your DM and try to cooperate with your party. If you render yourself immune to weapon damage, and can deal 12d12 damage to enemies in a close burst 10, expect that you're gonna get nerfed a tad so that your party members can play, too, and monsters can actually attack you (even if they need to roll a 20). Otherwise, have fun, and laugh hysterically at the pathetic abilities of non-gestalt heroes while you tackle level 4 solos at the start of your level 1 adventuring career!
So, people who liked gestalt in 3.5, or wish that Hybrid rules had more oomph, whaddaya think?
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