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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sword of Spirit" data-source="post: 7098216" data-attributes="member: 6677017">In the vein of this thread <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?519848-Proposal-Fighter-mage-thief-quick-and-dirty-concurrent-multiclassing-gestalt-rules" target="_blank">http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?519848-Proposal-Fighter-mage-thief-quick-and-dirty-concurrent-multiclassing-gestalt-rules</a> I'd like to get opinions on the power of a gestalt multiclassing system I'm considering.Likely immediate reaction: "That's too powerful."Now, let's get into the actual analysis and see if it actually is too powerful or not.A few considerations to keep in mind. (See Final Consideration at the bottom.)A) 5e rates vertical power increases that push against the soft cap as being extremely powerful, while it rates flexibility rather cheaply. This is why they give you rerolls of 1s rather than simple pluses to damage when you are already on the high end, but let you pick up entirely different skill sets, like spellcasting or lock-picking for a feat. I had a better explanation of this, but the internet swallowed my post and I don't want to retype that all.B) Forget anything you think is imbalanced about the core 5e game. This includes Great Weapon Master, Warlock multiclassing, etc. I want to consider the balance of this system without those complications.C) More or less ignore the balance of this system before level 3 (actually level 2/2), because it isn't balanced there, but can easily be made so in a number of ways.So without further adieu, here is the system:1) Pick two classes and gain the best HD, all the weapon, armor, tool/language/musical instrument proficiencies, the best number of skills chosen from the combined list, and the saves from whichever class you prefer.2) You don't level at the same rate as other characters. Specifically, you skip 2nd level and 13th level. This means that when other characters are 3rd level, you are 2nd level, and when other characters are 14th level, you are 12th level. This is your real level, including HD, proficiency bonus, cantrip scaling, etc.3) You gain all the class features of each class, except that you don't gain the same feature twice--you gain the better version of the feature. Specifically, you don't gain ASI's more than once per level, you gain spell slots from your best spellcasting class (though you do gain spells known or prepared separately for each class), and anything else with the same name is likewise limited.4) You can't use the at-will damage scaling features of both classes on the same turn. There will be a list, but this means that you could either use a fighter's Extra Attack feature (with potentially 3 attacks), or a paladin's Extra Attack (with no more than 2 attacks) *and* his Improved Divine Smite, or a rogue's Sneak Attack, etc, but you could not combine those features from both classes on the same turn. (This should prevent vertical issues while allowing flexibility.)My sample character was a Fighter (Eldritch Knight) / Wizard. His hit points were in-between that of a single class fighter and a single class wizard. He was one or two levels behind in spellcasting (so he loses both higher level spells, and number of spell slots), but he ends up knowing a lot of spells and cantrips.Final Consideration In 3e they had a philosophy on feat balance, that if a feat was so good that almost everyone (to whom it would be relevant) takes it, it is too strong, and if almost nobody takes it, it is too weak. I like to apply a similar philosophy to character concept support. Any particular mechanical option is designed to express a certain non-mechanical concept. If almost everyone who wants to play that concept takes that mechanical option, and almost no one who wants to play a merely similar concept takes it, then it is probably balanced. So if most players who want to play a character who is a more or less evenly split warrior mage want to play a gestalt fighter/wizard, and almost no one who wants to play a fighter with a bit of magic (ie, Eldritch Knight) or a wizard who can shake it up in melee (ie, Bladesinger) wants to play a gestalt fighter/wizard, it is probably fairly balanced. If more than a few people who want to play an Eldritch Knight or Bladesinger concept end up playing a gestalt fighter/wizard instead of the subclass designed for their concept because they think it is mechanically just that much better, then it probably is not balanced.Balanced, or too powerful?</blockquote>

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