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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Artoomis" data-source="post: 3157266" data-attributes="member: 111">The "state" of the subject is:"...its Intelligence and Charisma scores each drop to 1. The affected creature is unable to use Intelligence- or Charisma-based skills, cast spells, understand language, or communicate coherently. Still, it knows who its friends are and can follow them and even protect "Since you can use items to raise the scores enough to be able to use a item that gives permanent increases, tomes for example, than the "state" of the subject is no longer as listed in the spell, but you have not used one of the listed spells to change the "state.". In other words, it is possible to do things OTHER than those listed to affect the "state" of the feebleminded victim.Since Break Enchantment could normally "cure" Feeblemind, takes a very clear statement like" only" those other spells can be used to indicate that Break Enchantment wil not work.An instantaneous effect can be reversed by anything that says it has that sort of power. The listed spells really work, it seems to me, because they can duplicate a Break Enchantment spell, or, in the case of Heal, because it is a listed thing that can be Healed.None of those things needed to be listed in the spell - so they are, in effect, only a list of example solutions to being feebleminded.Heal works because Heal says it works.Break Enchantment works becasue it is an instantaneous enchantment of fifth level or lower.Limited Wish, Wish and Miracle all can be used to emulate a Break Enchantment.It appears the list in the spell is merely for convenience and is incomplete, rather than an exclusive list of all possible remedies.Looks to me like either leaving Break Enchantment off the list was an oversight or using more specific language to exclude the possibility of other solutions other than those listed was an oversight.Actually, if one wants to list only a certain set of "cures" and exclude all others that might work, the effect should have been "permanent" rather than "instantaneous" so that some residual magic could be in place that would prevent anything else from working.As it is, because the effect is "instantaneous," the rules allow any possible solution that can affect a fifth-level instantanous enchantment, like Break Enchantment.</blockquote>

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