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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Artoomis" data-source="post: 3158644" data-attributes="member: 111">edit:  This is kind of long, but it brings all of my arguments together, I think"...Allowing a 5th-level wizard spell to remove the effect, simply because of pedantry or player whining, is an unacceptable weakening of the spell"  No, it's just applying Break Enchantment as written, plus realizing that for an instantenous spell such a list is permissive rather than restrictive (or, if you like inclusive rather than exclusive).Let's look at which fifth level or lower "instantaneous enchantments" actually exist in the PHB, for Break Enchantment is meant to apply to all of those.Let's see, there is:Feeblemind Sor/Wiz 5 and... oh, look, that’s it!  The only one.  (edit:  I searched the "Hyperlinked SRD." If I missed somehting please let me know.) That alone is evidence fairly strong evidence that Break Enchantment should work on Feeblemind,  It is the only PHB spell that is an instantaneous enchantment that could be affected by Break Enchantment.The argument that the "feebleminded state" can only be removed as stated in the spell falls apart very quickly, as I have shown.  There are other ways that one can remove the feebleminded state, even if rather inefficiently (such as magically raising the stats and/or even slowing raising them by level advancement). Since that is true, the list presented cannot be an exclusive list.  Since that is true, Break Enchantment must work.An instantaneous effect, by definition, leaves behind no magic that can control its ongoing effect.. This is a very key point  Because of this fact, any language about what can remove the instantaneous effect must be permissive, rather that restrictive.  In other words, it’s removing the normal restriction that one can pretty much do nothing to reverse “instantaneous” effect.   Feeblemind list some ways one can do this, but Break Enchantment lists another.  By the logic above, and because Feeblemind is the ONLY fifth level or lower instantaneous enchantment in the PHB, Break Enchantment must be able to work.If not, the whole logic above must have a fatal flaw somewhere (please point it out to me) and, to top it off, the “fifth level or lower instantaneous enchantment” portion of Break Enchantment must have no meaning, at least as far as the PHB is concerned, and that is not really acceptable to me.edit:  Unfortunately a quick surface reading for Feeblemind would lead one to a conclusion that ONLY those spells listed work to "fix" the feebleminded.That's unfortunate, especially lin light of the fact that NONE of those spells needed to be listed.  That's because Heal already explicity states it "immediately ends...  the adverse condition..." of feeblemind, and the others all can be used in place of Break Enchantment anyway.  It would have been better (clearer) to have no such text at all in the Feeblemind spell description.</blockquote>

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