Getting gritty with 4e

[Doug Justice]

First, let me say that I'm loving 4e and enjoy the high fantasy combat it brings to the table. I also enjoy some nasty, gritty combat like you might find in A Game of Thrones from time to time as well. So I got to thinking how could you bring grittier combat to 4e?

One way I think it could be done is by using the disease track. Yes, I said disease track. For example, the disease might be Festering Wound. Whatever is the trigger (maybe being bloodied) begins the initial disease attack and you go from there. The wounds fester as your condition worsens. I could see various disease tracks based on what type of weapon (blunt or slashing, etc...) and where you were hit (having a leg wound might start by slowing you while a head wound might daze you).

This would add extra bookkeeping, but seems like a simple way to add grit to the combat. Just have to come up with various disease tracks and their effects.

Thoughts or suggestions?

 

[Scribble]

Have you seen Mike Mearls's blog?

He's been working on something like this, using the disease track like you sugegsted...

 

[Doug Justice]

Have you seen Mike Mearls's blog?

He's been working on something like this, using the disease track like you sugegsted...

No I haven't, but I will search for it now Thanks!

***EDIT*** I couldn't find anything about the disease track being used (other than a mention that Keith Baker had used it to simulate a broken arm). If anyone has a link I would appreciate it. Though there was some good stuff for gritting up combat.

 

[Scribe Ineti]

I was going to post this on RPGnet to the same thread you started there, but RPGnet is being wonky at the moment...

I think there's a lot you can do to grit up combat, but most of the ideas I have in mind would require first the addition of some sort of hit location mechanic. Probably be pretty easy to add on--leg, arm, chest, head, etc.

Then, come up with assorted effects for each hit location. Head trauma could involve dazed, concussions, knocked out, etc.

You could add mechanics for lodged weapons. Someone gets hit with an arrow or a javelin or a thrown dagger; the weapon is lodged into the target's body and causes additional problems, such as a DEX hit or the like for having a length of wood and metal sticking out of them.

 

[Obryn]

I'll be honest - I've never liked "gritty" D&D.

If I want gritty combat, I'll play WFRP. Without fairly extensive houserules, neither D&D 3e nor 4e do it very well.

-O

 

[Scribble]

No I haven't, but I will search for it now Thanks!

***EDIT*** I couldn't find anything about the disease track being used (other than a mention that Keith Baker had used it to simulate a broken arm). If anyone has a link I would appreciate it. Though there was some good stuff for gritting up combat.

Yeah it wasn't the exact thing you werer talking about, but it was along those lines... It was about adding things like hamstring injuries or pulled mucles. Just figured you could use it to get some ideas.

 

[Doug Justice]

Yeah it wasn't the exact thing you werer talking about, but it was along those lines... It was about adding things like hamstring injuries or pulled mucles. Just figured you could use it to get some ideas.

Yep, thanks for pointing me there. Very good stuff.

 

[Zaruthustran]

My group implemented a "wounded" system. 4E's concept of Bloodied makes it easy. Here's how it works.

All the below rules take place after combat is over--we didn't want to implement a death spiral. It's assumed that during the combat you fight through the pain.

1. If you were bloodied in the combat you have to make a save vs. wound. This is just like any other save: 1-10 is failure, 11-20 is success. If you fail, you're wounded. You only make one save regardless of how many times your were bloodied in the battle.
2. If you were dropped to 0 hp or below in the fight, you're automatically wounded.
3. Being wounded means you're -1 on all rolls (just like the death penalty). This lasts until you are healed via long rest + Heal check, or are healed via magical healing (Cure Wounds utility power or similar; Inspiring or Healing Words don't do it).
4. If you're healed via nonmagical means you have to describe the scar on your character sheet.

We played that way for two sessions and found the rules to be too fussy. The ROI wasn't good enough, and the extra hassle didn't deliver enough extra fun. YMMV.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

Personally for our group, gritty doesn't need any mechanics change. It is all in the narrative and descriptions.

They just got in a fight and did an extended rest... Well they are still covered in dirt, blood, etc. They have very badly patched wounds and are sore and tired, but can fight and act as they would normally, when injured that could represent a wound reopening, etc.

 

[Doc Eldritch]

I'll be honest - I've never liked "gritty" D&D.

If I want gritty combat, I'll play WFRP. Without fairly extensive houserules, neither D&D 3e nor 4e do it very well.

-O

Agreed completely. What is funny, is I will start working on something for WFRP, and then think "You know, I kinda want more heroic characters." Then work on something for DnD and have the thought of "I kinda want something more gritty!" Of course, I am weird like that!