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Getting rid of bad skill proficiencies
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<blockquote data-quote="Tomice" data-source="post: 8128208" data-attributes="member: 6873674"><p>Ever since I saw the merging of Thieves Tools proficiency with Sleight of Hand in Baldurs Gate 3, I've thought a lot about skills in 5e, their inconsistencies, and their wildly varying usefulness.</p><p>Here are some thoughts about problematic skills and how to improve their usefulness and logic.</p><p></p><p>But first, here's a tier list of skills I've taken from a survey (which can be argued about, the details aren't that important, it's just meant as a short overview):</p><p>[SPOILER]S: Perception</p><p>A: Persuasion, Stealth</p><p>B: Athletics, Arcana, Investigation, Insight, Deception</p><p>C: Acrobatics, Sleight of Hand, History, Survival, Intimidation</p><p>D: Nature, Religion</p><p>F: Medicine, Animal Handling, Performance[/SPOILER]</p><p></p><p>Here are my thoughts/suggestions:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Medicine</strong> only serves one tangible purpose (stabilizing someone "empty-handed" without healing spells and healing kit). I would convert it to a tool proficiency and make it necessary to use a healers kit. This tool proficiency would also cover the secondary function (examining wounds, identifying a disease). Casters with healing spells should also have free proficiency in medical examinations.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Performance</strong> is not even important for bards, so I would drop it. Dancing, juggling and similar stuff should be governed by Acrobatics. Singing should be a musical instrument proficiency. A contest between two musicians should be charisma+instrument proficiency. No need for performance IMHO.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Animal Handling</strong> is very situational. I believe riding should be associated with Acrobatics, while coaches ad carts should be a tool ("land vehicles"). Understanding animals should be tied to Nature.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Acrobatics</strong> would be much more distinct from Athletics if dancing and riding would be added to it's portfolio. It would also be easier to understand for new players (all about balance).</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Survival</strong> and <strong>Nature</strong> are very much overlapping and should be merged. They should be tied to intelligence to make the stat more important.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>History</strong> should be renamed society and contain everything regarding the more or less civilized world. Borders, customs, titles, heraldry, laws, rules, where to find services in a large city, ....</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Deception</strong> and <strong>Intimidation</strong> should get wider uses to be competitive with persuasion. Failing an intimidation or deception check shouldn't always result in an angry or even hostile NPC. Instead, Deception should be used for all interactions with criminals, while intimidation should be used to parley with brutes and monsters. <strong>Persuasion</strong> should not be the best way to interact with angry Hobgoblins, they should be more receptive to tough statements and an intimidating posture. The party face should change depending on who you need to talk to!</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Sleight of Hand</strong> and Thieves Tools should be merged. TT are by far the most useful tool, making them a skill would be more consistent. Also, SoH is very weak now that it's not associated with traps and locks.</li> </ul><p></p><p>To sum it up, this would be my suggestion for a revised skill system:</p><p>STR - Athlectics</p><p>DEX - Acrobatics</p><p>DEX - Stealth</p><p>DEX - Sleight of Hand = Thieves Tools</p><p>INT - Society (History)</p><p>INT - Investigation</p><p>INT - Nature = Survival</p><p>INT - Arcana</p><p>INT - Religion</p><p>WIS - Perception</p><p>WIS - Insight</p><p>CHA - Persuasion</p><p>CHA - Deception</p><p>CHA - Intimidation</p><p></p><p>Healers kit would be a new tool proficiency.</p><p>Thieves tools and Sleight of Hand would be a skill primarily, but also a tool under certain circumstances (e.g. as spellcasting focus for an Artificer).</p><p></p><p>EDIT: As a side effect, the distinction between INT and WIS would be clearer - one is more about learned knowledge, the other is more about wits and instuition.</p><p>_____________________________</p><p></p><p>What are your thoughts? Could this system be used or would it cause problems?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tomice, post: 8128208, member: 6873674"] Ever since I saw the merging of Thieves Tools proficiency with Sleight of Hand in Baldurs Gate 3, I've thought a lot about skills in 5e, their inconsistencies, and their wildly varying usefulness. Here are some thoughts about problematic skills and how to improve their usefulness and logic. But first, here's a tier list of skills I've taken from a survey (which can be argued about, the details aren't that important, it's just meant as a short overview): [SPOILER]S: Perception A: Persuasion, Stealth B: Athletics, Arcana, Investigation, Insight, Deception C: Acrobatics, Sleight of Hand, History, Survival, Intimidation D: Nature, Religion F: Medicine, Animal Handling, Performance[/SPOILER] Here are my thoughts/suggestions: [LIST] [*][B]Medicine[/B] only serves one tangible purpose (stabilizing someone "empty-handed" without healing spells and healing kit). I would convert it to a tool proficiency and make it necessary to use a healers kit. This tool proficiency would also cover the secondary function (examining wounds, identifying a disease). Casters with healing spells should also have free proficiency in medical examinations. [*][B]Performance[/B] is not even important for bards, so I would drop it. Dancing, juggling and similar stuff should be governed by Acrobatics. Singing should be a musical instrument proficiency. A contest between two musicians should be charisma+instrument proficiency. No need for performance IMHO. [*][B]Animal Handling[/B] is very situational. I believe riding should be associated with Acrobatics, while coaches ad carts should be a tool ("land vehicles"). Understanding animals should be tied to Nature. [*][B]Acrobatics[/B] would be much more distinct from Athletics if dancing and riding would be added to it's portfolio. It would also be easier to understand for new players (all about balance). [*][B]Survival[/B] and [B]Nature[/B] are very much overlapping and should be merged. They should be tied to intelligence to make the stat more important. [*][B]History[/B] should be renamed society and contain everything regarding the more or less civilized world. Borders, customs, titles, heraldry, laws, rules, where to find services in a large city, .... [*][B]Deception[/B] and [B]Intimidation[/B] should get wider uses to be competitive with persuasion. Failing an intimidation or deception check shouldn't always result in an angry or even hostile NPC. Instead, Deception should be used for all interactions with criminals, while intimidation should be used to parley with brutes and monsters. [B]Persuasion[/B] should not be the best way to interact with angry Hobgoblins, they should be more receptive to tough statements and an intimidating posture. The party face should change depending on who you need to talk to! [*][B]Sleight of Hand[/B] and Thieves Tools should be merged. TT are by far the most useful tool, making them a skill would be more consistent. Also, SoH is very weak now that it's not associated with traps and locks. [/LIST] To sum it up, this would be my suggestion for a revised skill system: STR - Athlectics DEX - Acrobatics DEX - Stealth DEX - Sleight of Hand = Thieves Tools INT - Society (History) INT - Investigation INT - Nature = Survival INT - Arcana INT - Religion WIS - Perception WIS - Insight CHA - Persuasion CHA - Deception CHA - Intimidation Healers kit would be a new tool proficiency. Thieves tools and Sleight of Hand would be a skill primarily, but also a tool under certain circumstances (e.g. as spellcasting focus for an Artificer). EDIT: As a side effect, the distinction between INT and WIS would be clearer - one is more about learned knowledge, the other is more about wits and instuition. _____________________________ What are your thoughts? Could this system be used or would it cause problems? [/QUOTE]
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