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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 6345356" data-attributes="member: 4937">So, let's start with the 3e implementation of multiple attacks.At first glance, it's really clunky.  You get 1-3 extra attacks, each with a decreasing chance of success.  It adds lots of complexity to the math and slows down combat.Why did they adopt such a clunky mechanic?Well, they had several very important design goals, which the mechanic successfully implements:a) It's important that high level non-magic users have the ability to attack multiple targets.  If high level 'mundane' combatants can't attack multiple targets in a round, then magic users with their area of effect attacks are relatively stronger especially at higher levels.  You introduce yet another area where magic users improve exponentially but mundane combatants improve only linearly.  A high level fighter needs the ability to drop multiple 'ogres' in a round.b) It's important that the damage inflicted increase smoothly with level.   Imagine if you got a second attack at your full BAB at 6th level, or suddenly at 6th level you did double damage on all successful attacks.   This would be a huge increase in power compared to the prior level, which meant that the challenges your party could face would also jump by a very large degree.  This would make encounter design difficult, as things that could challenge 6th+ level parties would be much more powerful than those that could challenge 5th level parties.  Monsters a few CR over 5 would be unexpectedly challenging to a 5th level party because they were designed to face parties that could basically dish out twice as much damage.   By ensuring that subsequent attacks are 25% less likely to succeed, there is a much smoother increase in expected damage with no big jumps in power.I think you will find it hard to replace the 3.X multiple attack mechanic in a way that is both equivalent and less complex.   You'll need:a) A way to scale damage up slowly and smoothly over time.b) A way to split that damage amongst multiple targets (which may have different defenses).I think you could replace it with some combination of bonus damage by level, power attack as a combat maneuver (instead of a feat), and an option to attack an increasing number of adjacent foes as you increase in level (but doing only half damage to each).   Additionally, you'd need to rework the mechanics on anything that yielded you additional attacks per round, for example Cleave, as the value of an attack would go up significantly under these changes.   You'd also need to rework anything that was balanced on the assumption you were giving up a full attack in order to perform the option.  Anything that made a single attack radically more effective would probably be imbalanced after the changes.   You'd also need to rework anything that was based on multiple attacks per round - two weapon fighting, for example.In terms of your change, the one observation you've made that boggles the mind is that average damage at high level has gone up.This seems really unlikely to me unless you are playing a very low powered campaign.  Your 20th level fighter is getting only +15 damage on his first attack for giving up 3 chances to hit.   I would expect this to be less than the average damage of hitting with a single attack at that level.   For example, the 6th level fighter PC in my game is averaging over 15 damage per hit (2d6+8) with a non-magical weapon and no magical buffs already.  At 20th level, I'd expect the same character to average 24-30 damage per hit.  I'd think in general the fighter hits with his first attack 95% of the time (failing only on a 1), hits 75% of the time with his second attack, 50% of the time with his third attack, and 25% of the time with his fourth attack.   The 2nd-4th attacks therefore add 150% additional expected damage.  Since the average hit at that level is probably about 30 damage, in order to value forgoing 3 attacks you'd expect to add like +43 damage to your attack.If that's not the case, then the big lesson here is 'don't play a fighter', since its easy for a 20th level wizard to produce more than 75 damage on an attack.   If a fighter is only hitting 50% of the time on his first attack and that's why forgoing 3 attacks for +15 damage is a sweet deal, then something is wrong.</blockquote>

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