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<blockquote data-quote="On Puget Sound" data-source="post: 4607106" data-attributes="member: 68988">I'm not rules-lawyering as I understand the term (trying to find a loophole for advantage); I'm reading a rule and making sense of it in the way both my understanding of English and my experience in D20 seem to indicate is the right way.&nbsp; Until this thread, it hadn't occurred to me that it could be read in the way you read it, but it is certainly worded poorly enough to allow for that interpretation as well.1. Since the question hinged on the definition of &quot;result of the roll&quot;, the place where skill checks are defined seemed like a logical place to start.&nbsp; It's true it refers to the &quot;result of the check&quot;, not the &quot;result of the roll&quot;...to me these two phrases were equivalent but they might not be, depending on whether the important word is &quot;roll&quot; or &quot;result&quot;.&nbsp; I just went further back, to review the definitions of dice and hnow to roll them, but found nothing that bears on the discussion.2. I looked at split the tree for one simple reason...I had just finished designing a ranger and remembered that there was a power that involved taking the better of two rolls.&nbsp; I didn't comb through the whole book searching for examples.&nbsp; It sometimes happens in this (and all) games that a poorly worded phrase is worded better elsewhere when the concept is visited again.&nbsp; Not much luck here, and I agree it's not very relevant.&nbsp; A more detailed search now is not turning up anything better, for either side of the argument.&nbsp; Elven accuracy, for example, says &quot;use the second roll&quot;, not the second result, but since the attack modifiers are the same there is no functional distinction there.3. &quot;Both of you can use the higher of your two die rolls.&quot;&nbsp; If I really wanted to be unambiguous, &quot;Both of you can use the higher of your two die rolls in this skill check.&quot;I still believe this is intended to be read the way we've been playing it, but you've convinced me there is enough doubt that I will send a customer service query.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="On Puget Sound, post: 4607106, member: 68988"] I'm not rules-lawyering as I understand the term (trying to find a loophole for advantage); I'm reading a rule and making sense of it in the way both my understanding of English and my experience in D20 seem to indicate is the right way. Until this thread, it hadn't occurred to me that it could be read in the way you read it, but it is certainly worded poorly enough to allow for that interpretation as well. 1. Since the question hinged on the definition of "result of the roll", the place where skill checks are defined seemed like a logical place to start. It's true it refers to the "result of the check", not the "result of the roll"...to me these two phrases were equivalent but they might not be, depending on whether the important word is "roll" or "result". I just went further back, to review the definitions of dice and hnow to roll them, but found nothing that bears on the discussion. 2. I looked at split the tree for one simple reason...I had just finished designing a ranger and remembered that there was a power that involved taking the better of two rolls. I didn't comb through the whole book searching for examples. It sometimes happens in this (and all) games that a poorly worded phrase is worded better elsewhere when the concept is visited again. Not much luck here, and I agree it's not very relevant. A more detailed search now is not turning up anything better, for either side of the argument. Elven accuracy, for example, says "use the second roll", not the second result, but since the attack modifiers are the same there is no functional distinction there. 3. "Both of you can use the higher of your two die rolls." If I really wanted to be unambiguous, "Both of you can use the higher of your two die rolls in this skill check." I still believe this is intended to be read the way we've been playing it, but you've convinced me there is enough doubt that I will send a customer service query. [/QUOTE]

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