Ghoul Advancement

[buzzard]

I was looking up ye olde Ghouls to be used in an adventure I'm writing. I need to have ghouls that are tougher than the garden variety, and the SRD only lists a piddling amount of advancement.

I was thinking that since ghouls are intelligent undead, I should be able to add class levels. Is there any reason I shouldn't?

[of course it's my adventure, so I really don't care what the rules are, but I'd just as soon know]

buzzard

 

[Darklone]

There should be a ghoul template somewhere on the WotC page or in the Kalamar adventure "Harvest of Darkness". IIRC, NeMorens Vault had a ghoul sorceress as well. So go ahead

 

[Garnfellow]

I was looking up ye olde Ghouls to be used in an adventure I'm writing. I need to have ghouls that are tougher than the garden variety, and the SRD only lists a piddling amount of advancement.

I was thinking that since ghouls are intelligent undead, I should be able to add class levels. Is there any reason I shouldn't?

[of course it's my adventure, so I really don't care what the rules are, but I'd just as soon know]

buzzard

Ghouls can absolutely take character classes. Rogue is an especially nasty choice; just ask my players.

 

[Piratecat]

Remember that even with a character class such as fighter, BAB defaults to 1/2 total hit dice; you don't get to keep the good BAB. As a results, classed ghouls (who I have a deep and intimate relationship with) are more effective if you rely on other tactics than sheer BAB.

 

[buzzard]

Remember that even with a character class such as fighter, BAB defaults to 1/2 total hit dice; you don't get to keep the good BAB. As a results, classed ghouls (who I have a deep and intimate relationship with) are more effective if you rely on other tactics than sheer BAB.

So you're saying, for example, a ghoul/fighter4 would only have a BAB of 3?
Hmm, that's flimsy. I'll probably have to go with the rogue idea then.

buzzard

 

[MerakSpielman]

Also remember that ghouls are sentient. They can be spellcasters.

 

[Aaron2]

Remember that even with a character class such as fighter, BAB defaults to 1/2 total hit dice; you don't get to keep the good BAB. As a results, classed ghouls (who I have a deep and intimate relationship with) are more effective if you rely on other tactics than sheer BAB.

Are you talking about a fighter taking a ghoul template or a ghoul that gains a fighter level?


Aaron

 

[BSF]

Adding an undead template to a creature messes with the BAB. I suppose you could try to play with semantics and it is your game, so no big deal. Just build a ghoul and then apply levels to it. However, I have never felt the need to "fix" the BAB when using classed undead.

I know PC has used a True Ghoul template, which is probably floating around here somewhere. Monte Cook also created a Ghoul and a Ghast template, which you can find on his site. (Monte's Ghoul & Ghast Templates )

 

[Garnfellow]

Remember that even with a character class such as fighter, BAB defaults to 1/2 total hit dice; you don't get to keep the good BAB.

Nope.

Some undead templates "rewrite" current class HD with d12s, and some even rewrite future class HD, but they don't all rewrite future BAB, saves, or skill points.

Adding class levels to a standard Monster Manual ghoul works just like adding class levels to any other creature, and follows standard multiclassing guidelines.* As an example of an undead creature taking levels in a character class, see the mummy lord entry from the 3.5 MM.

* A metric ton of ghoul templates are floating around, from WotC, several d20 publishers, and elsewhere. (I once made a True Ghoul template a few years ago that's still floating around the internet, which I based on Monte's version and Wolfgang Bauer's 2e monster.) So I'll concede that, given all this multiplicity, there are probably ghoul templates out there that affect future class levels just like Piratecat describes -- but this isn't how it works in the core rules.

 

[Scharlata]

[...] tougher than the garden variety [...]

Hi!

You can always add a class level, even if the entry of the MM is just a slash/dash/whatever...

... but I think you are looking for a ghoul template to rescue the good things you knew in life (BAB, BST, skills). Then look for THE ghoulish creature template in issue 307 of the DRAGON Magazine, page 41. It's 3.0, IIRC.

Or take a half-undead ghoul template from DRAGON issue #313, page 63.

Or go with the corrupted creature from the Book of Vile Darkness, page 186.

Or use the spell-stiched template from the FIEND FOLIO.

I'm getting very good results going along with the bone creature template from the BoVD. I was looking for a tougher-than-plain-vanilla variety of skeletons for an adventure, and until now I'm excited.

Kind regards

P.S.: Do you know the answer to the the question "Sick of Ghoul Touch?"