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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Olaf the Stout" data-source="post: 3282268" data-attributes="member: 13703">I put my party (4 level 7 PC's, 1 level 6 PC) up against a Giant Crocodile from the MM last session.  Let's just say that I'm glad it attacked the PC with the most HP's first otherwise a PC or 2 might have died rather quickly.  Here are the stats for it:[sblock=Giant Crocodile Stats]Crocodile, Giant: CR 4; LA —; Huge animal (aquatic); HD 7d8+28; hp 59; Init +1; Spd 20 ft., swim 30 ft.; AC 16 (–2 size, +1 Dex, +7 natural), touch 9, flat-footed 15; Base Atk +5; Grp +21; Atk Bite +11 melee (2d8+12) or tail slap +11 melee (1d12+12); Full Atk (same); Space/Reach 15 ft./10 ft.; SA improved grab; SQ hold breath, low–light vision; AL (Always) N; SV Fort +9, Ref +6, Will +3; Str 27, Dex 12, Con 19, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 2.Skills and Feats: Hide +1, Listen +5, Spot +5, Swim +16; Alertness, Endurance, Skill Focus (Hide). (A crocodile has a +8 racial bonus on any Swim check to perform some special action or avoid a hazard. It can always choose to take 10 on a Swim check, even if distracted or endangered. It can use the run action while swimming, provided it swims in a straight line. A crocodile gains a +4 racial bonus on Hide checks when in the water. Further, a crocodile can lie in the water with only its eyes and nostrils showing, gaining a +10 cover bonus on Hide checks.)Hold Breath (Ex): A crocodile can hold its breath for a number of rounds equal to 4 x its Constitution score before it risks drowning.Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a crocodile must hit with its bite attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, the crocodile establishes a hold on the opponent with its mouth and drags it into deep water, attempting to pin it to the bottom.[/sblock]The combat went like this:Crocodiles sneaks up on the party's longboat from behind.  Fighter fails his Spot vs. Crocodile Hide check.  No other characters are looking in that direction to try and spot it.Surprise Round: Crocodile successfully attacks Fighter, biting him from for over 20 points damage.  Succeeds in grapple check and pins the Fighter.First Round:  Fighter doesn't escape the grapple.  Other PC's try to attack the Crocodile, some hit but don't do anywhere near the 59 points of damage required to kill it.  Crocodile bites the Fighter for another 20+ damage.  Wins another grapple check and starts trying to drown the Fighter.Second Round:  Fighter manages to get off a Lightning Bolt from his Weapon of Legacy Longbow that he was holding when the Crocodile bit him.  Croc fails his save and is taken to about 1/2 HP's.  Other PC's attack again, some hits, some misses.  Sorcerer hits the Croc with a Fireball, killing him.End result:  Level 7 Fighter nearly killed in 2 rounds (plus a surprise round) by a creature that the party should have been able to take 2 on at the same time.If he had taken 1 more bite he probably would have been unconscious.  If any other PC had been grabbed they probably would have been unconscious after 2 bites.  What made this even more remarkable was that the fighter had not taken that much damage in the campaign to date (about 14 sessions).  He is an archer so he stays at the back most of the time and has an AC in the mid-20's due to a 21 Dex.The problem with the Croc was the fact that it got a free Grapple when it hit with its bite.  With a Grapple check of +21 (is that even correct?) most characters aren't going to be able to escape.  That means that unless the party can kill it, whoever is in its mouth will either get bitten to death or drown without much chance.Does a +11 to attack with 2d8+12 damage per round (plus Improved Grab) seem a little strong for a CR4 creature to anyone else?  I know that it has a low AC but that doesn't really matter once it has you in it's mouth now does it.Olaf the StoutIf I have put this in the wrong place mods please feel free to move it.  The only monster area I could see was under House Rules and I really didn't think that it fit in there.</blockquote>

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