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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Majoru Oakheart" data-source="post: 3922403" data-attributes="member: 5143">Yes.  But in 3e the variation is too great.  A rogue might have to basically sit out an entire battle because he only has a shortsword against an undead creature with DR 10/bludgeoning or 10/silver or something.  Meanwhile a creature with a really high AC can paralyze a fighter, only allowing the wizard to possibly defeat the enemy.What I envision 4e is going for is that instead in one encounter the rogue's damage might go down from 30 to 20 and the creature is immune to his stunning while the fighters increases from 20 to 30 and can trip the creature more easily, but where no one's damage decreases to 1d6-10.Although I admit that my players are extremely impatient and restless so the effect is more pronounced, it's times like:-The PCs are walking down corridors filled with empty rooms on both sides.  The rogue searches every 5 feet for traps, just in case and especially searches every door.  In each room where there is anything valuable, the one person in the party whose job it is to keep track of the treasure writes it all down.  The wizard makes spellcraft checks to identify every potion and scroll.  Then he casts detect magic over the items and makes a spellcraft check to determine the school of every magic item.-The PCs are in town trying to figure out who killed the mayor's daughter.  The bard made some gather information checks, then some diplomacy checks.  A farmer said he thought he saw the blacksmith sneaking around outside the building but the blacksmith is missing.  The bartender saw it too though.  So the PCs head to the tavern and ask him for informations, only he won't tell the party anything unless they entertain him and his patrons.  The bard volunteers and starts making perform checks.  Then after the performance he makes a diplomacy check to convince the bartender that it was good enough.During these times some or nearly all of the group is sitting around waiting for someone else to move the game along.  I've found that the average person in our group doesn't even have the patience to wait for 5 other players and the DM to take their turns in combat before it comes to them again.  They certainly don't have the patience to wait for everyone else to finish a whole battle while their action is to delay or ready every round.  Which they will do if they feel useless in that combat.Not all of this can be corrected with rules alone, but some can.  Things like being able to take 10 and 20 helped speed up the endless searching and disarming, but it could probably be made easier and quicker still.  Involving all the players in more of the activities which used to involve only one of the players helps to get them all paying attention.  Things like watching for things to happen so they can activate immediate action has begun to involve people in other's turns.  It's a start and I think they can continue along this path in the future.</blockquote>

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