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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lancelot" data-source="post: 6392230" data-attributes="member: 30022">So, firstly, I want to make it clear that I mean no offense to the hard work that Sacrosanct is doing here. I agree with Sacrosanct that the Epic-level unique monsters are hard. I don't think I'd feel confident taking a swing at them myself, and I applaud Sacrosanct's courage for giving it a go, given the fairly limited information we have so far on monster design.Also, I'm loving all the non-Epic monster conversions, which seem excellent. I'm a big Mystara fan, so I'm thrilled to see the Lupin and the Kopru. Thanks for that.So, Zuggtmoy...<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">I actually like this conversion a lot more than Graz'zt. It avoids three of the main issues with Graz'zt. Firstly, there are no obvious at-will "all-the-players-are-hosed" attacks. Secondly, her powers and spells are a lot more thematic with being the Demon Queen of Fungi. Thirdly, her servants are in-line with the established fluff. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">I really like the variable power level based on the number of gates broken in ToEE. This is good stuff. Not sure about the balance. I might reduce her proficiency bonus gradually at each level, rather than having a huge +8 drop between her CR 15 and CR 20 versions. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">As with Graz'zt, I have a philosophical tendency towards fewer and more thematic spells and powers. While respecting Sacrosanct's point that a big list of spells gives the creature more tools, it makes life more difficult for the DM. That's 20 spells that the DM needs to remember or look up in the PH. I know there are some DMs who would say "that's why we need the spell text in the monster listing", but that's not a good answer either. It'd add another entire page to the monster entry, even if only abbreviated information was offered. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Specifically, does any DM really need to know that Zuggtmoy can detect magic at will? This is a legendary demon princess, with Intelligence and Wisdom beyond mortal reach. Of course she can detect magic... and nearly any other low- or mid- level spell that she chooses. The same could be said of destroy food/water. I'd prefer to see Epic monster stat blocks contain the 6-10 spells and powers that are most thematic to the creature, and perhaps a simple message which implies: the DM can add any other powers required by the situation or story. Outside combat, Zuggtmoy (and Graz'zt, and any other Epic creature of demigod-like status) should be able to do nearly anything that a mere mortal 20th level cleric or wizard could achieve... given time and resources. Reducing the number of listed powers is a huge simplification tool for the DM, and assures that the party will be experiencing an encounter with Zuggtmoy that will include the most flavorsome effects. It also creates unique design space for other creatures. This was my main objection to all the fire spells on Graz'zt; it makes it very hard to provide a unique design for any of the true fire-based archfiends. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">So, out of Zuggtmoy's list, what would I personally keep? Anything that represents rot, decay, plants, fungi. Blight and contagion are good choices, as are entangle, grasping vine, wall of thorns, cloudkill. Maybe a few others. These are spells that are not going to be commonly encountered on other Epic creatures. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">I'd personally drop the two dominates and the compulsion. That's Graz'zt's shtick (and Asmodeus, and a few others). </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">I'd remove true polymorph, which removes her uniqueness. If every archfiend had true polymorph, they would all just change into the single most effective monster form available (ancient red dragon? pit fiend?). Zuggtmoy is already plenty dangerous in her current form, with many movement modes, defenses and attacks. Also, there's an ego thing: would an archfiend choose to become something else, when it is already confident in it's supreme power? If I was Zuggtmoy, I'd want to beat down the PCs as the Queen of Fungi, rather than as a polymorphed iron golem. Finally, the true polymorph spell is one of the hardest for the DM to play out on the fly. Unless you already know ahead of time which shape she's going to assume, you need to have either a good knowledge of all the options or you're going to be wasting time flicking through the MM. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">I'd also lose the misty step and the levitate at will. Here's an alternate way of dealing with those powers: just give her some additional movement modes (10' fly, 30' teleport). That removes two entries from the spell-list, reducing the complexity for the DM. However, it doesn't reduce Zuggtmoy's power level at all. Those modes are still available to her, but listed in the Speed line along with her other movement modes. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Personal preference, but I'd substantially lower Zuggtmoy's AC. She's a big spongey mushroom lady. She should be easy to hit, but able to absorb a ton of damage. Actually, I'd almost be tempted to give her resistance to all bludgeoning weapons (even magical). Something to reflect her resilient, rubbery, fungal form. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Finally: Shiftless Form allows her to go ethereal for up to a minute, rendering her effectively immune to attack. But it doesn't say the type of action for her to return to physical form. For balance, I'd consider making this a Bonus Action. This prevents her from whaling on the PCs, then shifting out as a Bonus Action... popping back on her next turn, beating on them again, then shifting out again as a Bonus Action... popping back again and continuing the beat-down. That's up to three consecutive rounds of one-sided punishment, unless the PCs ready their actions for when she reappears (which they won't necessarily know is the correct tactic, and they're probably already trying to deal with summoned fungi at the same time). I think that'd be a little frustrating. </li> </ul>Anyway, there you have it. Only responding because I was asked, and no intention to belabor some of these points. Sacrosanct's doing a great job here, particularly with the non-Epic creatures. Thanks again.</blockquote>

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