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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Elder-Basilisk" data-source="post: 2772619" data-attributes="member: 3146"><p>The problem with assuming take ten on the listen is that it makes stealth almost automatic. If the DM assumes that PCs take ten on their listen/spot, then any bad guy with a hide/move silently even one point better than the PCs will automatically sneak up right next to them and get a surprise round. (And it seems easier to get high hide/move silently than spot/listen. Without any spells, there's shadow and silent armor as well as cloaks and boots of elvenkind. For spot/listen there's only the eyes of the eagle in the core rules--when you add non-core rules, you get hawkeye and eyes of the avoral, but you have to deal with forestfold, etc which are much more effective at making you hidden than the spot buffs are for helping you spot). If I'm in a hurry, I'll just roll four or five checks vs. the PC's hide/move silently at once and see if any of them are 18, 19, 20, etc. Alternately, I'll roll one check for each of the bad guys and judge what distance they'll spot the PC based on that roll. "Ahh, he rolled an 18, so he'll be able to spot you when you make it to thirty feet away."</p></blockquote><p></p>