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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lurker 2.0" data-source="post: 1818898" data-attributes="member: 24976">Okay, my two cents against all y'all's two cents: Fighters shouldn't have any of these skills with the possible exceptions of Profession and Knowledge (History). 1: Armies have not historically (in the last 700 years or so) had the warriors do much other than fight. Typically we have support units - a.k.a. foragers (Survival experts), medics (Heal experts), siege engineers (Knowledge (A&E) experts), and others. The warriors are expected to hack. They might know how to freak enemies out (Intimidate) or hack while on horseback (HA & Ride), but that's typically the limit. As for Spot/Listen, well no, warriors aren't good sentries. That's why armies typically have a lot of them, so that hopefully if one guy has a -1 Spot, the other 19 guys within range of the disturbance can catch it.2: Fighters are not soldiers. As the DMG says, a majority of soldiers in armies are commoners or warriors. A fighter isn't necessarily a career soldier, though he can be; he's a combat specialist. Which typically means a weapons master who's done nothing but study for years, or a soldier who only cares about the dance of battle, or another background similarly devoted to only hacking. That's why the fighter has mondo feats - he specializes in Combat, not in other things that can be tangentally related to combat. That's why he doesn't even get Profession - he's been too busy slicing/piercing/bashing things to consider getting paid for it or something else (this point even I'll concede, however; Profession does seem a bit of a universal skill, even if it's limited to Profession (Guide/Herbalist) for the Barbarian). If you want a light fighter who's good on his feet and a decent sentry, Multiclass. If you want a Fighter capable of arranging siege weapons and finding structural weak points, Multiclass. That's pretty much my response to anything. The Fighter Fights. If you want a character who can do differently, add in other class levels. But don't change the class.3: archastrel, dunno if you looked it up, but the combat Bluff is already weak against fighters - it's not opposed by a normal Sense Motive, it's opposed by Sense Motive with a bonus equal to your BAB. So a fighter without Sense Motive isn't going to be much worse than a Rogue with it at detecting feints.4: Despite what I've said above, you still don't have to Multiclass. If you want a Fighter who's picked up a bit about how to feed himself, stay on watch, or fight on uneven terrain, pick up a cross-class skill. At low levels, the difference is small, easily offset by a good ability score. At high levels, well, if you really need ranks at high levels, multiclass into Expert or Rogue for just one level and dump skill points.In short, I think the Fighter's skills are fine. He's got a lot to make up for it.But everyone's entitled to an opinion. And if it's my opinion that Kirk is a Denebian Slime Devil, well, that's just an opinion.</blockquote>

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