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Message: <blockquote data-quote="JackGiantkiller" data-source="post: 1891176" data-attributes="member: 5080">Next bit. 10th level party above (add in a cleric, of course, and they get even more powerful, but that's another rant.) Add level apropriate magic.The BBEG should be 2 to four levels higher then the party. Maybe more. And cleverly built, because your players will milk everything they have. Say the villain is a wizard 14. He'll be in one fight, so he can afford to blow all his spells on it. He's got Prot from Arrows. He's Stoneskinned. He's got energy resistance. (At least fire, ice and lightning). He's got Shield, mage armor, and a friendly cleric to shield of faith him. He's got Stat boosting buffs on to raise his saves, which already outpace spell dc's. He's got an escape readied, like a teleport or a wraithform. He might even have acontingency he paid someon else for, or that was provided by the even bigger BBEG. Note there's no real magic items mentioned here, just to keep the comparison even with the above. So the BBEG, who can have higher stats than a PC if you want, has Str 14 Dex 16 Con 14 Int 21 WIS 16 cHA 18. His feats are combat casting (say concentration 17 ranks, +23 total to cast defensively), the same Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus, The Same Spellcasting Prodigy. He's got Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, and Great Fortitude. (He's still got feats left, especially if human) His saves are +10 fort with Bear's End, +10 Ref with cat's Grace, +16 will with Owl's Wisdom. The tenth level wizard Phantasmal killer's him. The dc is 19, because the wiz isn't focused in illusion, it's in Evocation. The baddie saves vs the fort on a nine and the will on a *3*. In the rare instance these *both* fail, applaud the players for their lucky crit and move on.<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> He targets the rogue with fort saves, the cleric and fighter with reflex saves, the fighter and rogue with will saves. He nails the other wizard with fort and ref saves. His mooks hold the fighters off him, and his familiar keeps an eye out to keep the rogue off his back. His own rogue bodyguard (possibly devoted defender) intercepts any sneak attack. Your only problem here is not wiping the PC's out, but that can be handled with finesse. So what's the problem?  Well, that and dealing with the self-buffing wonder cleric.On the other hand,. I've lost 7 of my last 9 pc's to instakills and bad saves, and was righteously irritated, so the math doesn't say everything.<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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