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<blockquote data-quote="Reynard" data-source="post: 4409349" data-attributes="member: 467">4E has been something of a rollercoaster for me.&nbsp; But now that its been out and I have played it a few times and read it thoroughly, I realize that it just isn't D&amp;D to me (I really don't want to get into a fight about whether it is or isn't -- suffice it to say that it isn't IMO).&nbsp; While it might be a good game for it's intended use, it doesn't excite me.But that's really not the point.&nbsp; The fact that it didn't ecite me got to thinking about D&amp;D and all the good times I've had with it, and all the bad times, and in doing so I sort of saw what D&amp;D is to me, or at least what good D&amp;D is to me.&nbsp; I smashed my head against the 3.x wall for a good long time, trying to make it work.&nbsp; Sometimes it was me issues; sometimes it was group issues; sometimes it was game system issues.&nbsp; And while I had some fun times with 3.x, I think when it is all tallied there was more pain than pleasure, more effort than reward.And this too brought me to a realization: I like old school gaming.&nbsp; I like subtly adversarial player/DM relationships.&nbsp; I like random monsters and random treasure and all that other randomness.&nbsp; I like esoteric subsystems.&nbsp; i like player balance over the long term.&nbsp; I like vancian magic.&nbsp; I like thieves that aren't front line combatants and druids that aren't combat machines and clerics that have to choose between being the medic or the utiliy caster.&nbsp; i like mages that go from zero to hero over the course of the campaign and fighters that have to rule lands and command armies to keep up.&nbsp; In short, i like old school D&amp;D.But i'm also getting on, with two young children and car/house payments and all that.&nbsp; I am damn near &quot;retiring&quot; entirely.&nbsp; I haven't been active here in some time and I barely engage in anything resembling &quot;gaming&quot; lately (aside from a few 4E 'playtest' sessions).&nbsp; It would be easy to just pack all my books (from all editions) into a box and put them in the crawl space with my star wars toys and old army stuff and let it be.But I don't want to.&nbsp; I want to enjoy it again.&nbsp; I want to play D&amp;D the way I want to play it;&nbsp; more importantly, run it the way I want to run it.&nbsp; i want to give it one more honest go before I &quot;retire&quot;, before I give it up, putting it behind me as something I &quot;used to do&quot;.&nbsp; i don't want to be done with it, even if I think I might be.&nbsp; I want just a little piece of that fun, that wonder, that awesome back that comes with my D&amp;D.And 4E ain't it.&nbsp; Neither is 3E.&nbsp; I think, in fact, it's 1E without all that ramp up to 2E junk (UA, the Survival Guides, ec..)&nbsp; It might actually be 2E pre-kits and player's option, though, as I played that longer.&nbsp; In any case, it's AD&amp;D, probably some 1E/2E amalgam.I am going to try and convince a few people I know to give it a go with me (and not ask a few other people -- a good part of my problem has also been player pool oriented).&nbsp; If it works, if it's fun and awesome and a worthwhileinvestment of the time and energy, Iwill be so happy. if it doesn't -- well, I just don't want to give it up without taking one last swing at it, I guess.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Reynard, post: 4409349, member: 467"] 4E has been something of a rollercoaster for me. But now that its been out and I have played it a few times and read it thoroughly, I realize that it just isn't D&D to me (I really don't want to get into a fight about whether it is or isn't -- suffice it to say that it isn't IMO). While it might be a good game for it's intended use, it doesn't excite me. But that's really not the point. The fact that it didn't ecite me got to thinking about D&D and all the good times I've had with it, and all the bad times, and in doing so I sort of saw what D&D is to me, or at least what good D&D is to me. I smashed my head against the 3.x wall for a good long time, trying to make it work. Sometimes it was me issues; sometimes it was group issues; sometimes it was game system issues. And while I had some fun times with 3.x, I think when it is all tallied there was more pain than pleasure, more effort than reward. And this too brought me to a realization: I like old school gaming. I like subtly adversarial player/DM relationships. I like random monsters and random treasure and all that other randomness. I like esoteric subsystems. i like player balance over the long term. I like vancian magic. I like thieves that aren't front line combatants and druids that aren't combat machines and clerics that have to choose between being the medic or the utiliy caster. i like mages that go from zero to hero over the course of the campaign and fighters that have to rule lands and command armies to keep up. In short, i like old school D&D. But i'm also getting on, with two young children and car/house payments and all that. I am damn near "retiring" entirely. I haven't been active here in some time and I barely engage in anything resembling "gaming" lately (aside from a few 4E 'playtest' sessions). It would be easy to just pack all my books (from all editions) into a box and put them in the crawl space with my star wars toys and old army stuff and let it be. But I don't want to. I want to enjoy it again. I want to play D&D the way I want to play it; more importantly, run it the way I want to run it. i want to give it one more honest go before I "retire", before I give it up, putting it behind me as something I "used to do". i don't want to be done with it, even if I think I might be. I want just a little piece of that fun, that wonder, that awesome back that comes with my D&D. And 4E ain't it. Neither is 3E. I think, in fact, it's 1E without all that ramp up to 2E junk (UA, the Survival Guides, ec..) It might actually be 2E pre-kits and player's option, though, as I played that longer. In any case, it's AD&D, probably some 1E/2E amalgam. I am going to try and convince a few people I know to give it a go with me (and not ask a few other people -- a good part of my problem has also been player pool oriented). If it works, if it's fun and awesome and a worthwhileinvestment of the time and energy, Iwill be so happy. if it doesn't -- well, I just don't want to give it up without taking one last swing at it, I guess. [/QUOTE]

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