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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 5726518" data-attributes="member: 42582">I don't see the issue as one of "fairness" so much as "interest". Is the scene/challenge in which Streetwise, or Intimidation, automatically fails an interesting one? Part of that depends on external considerations (eg will it please the players, or produce a player revolt?) and part depends on internal considerations (eg in the Intimidate case, a successful Insight check can let the players know that Intimidation has no chance of success - what is the analogue of that for the Streetwise case?).This comes up fairly often when running 4e. I think the key is to make the fiction count. For example, give the players a reason not to have their PCs tip their hands about knowledge of shortcuts. Then they won't use them all the time.In my own game, the PCs who are trained in Intimidate nevetheless sometimes use Diplomacy, or those who are trained in Diplomacy nevertheless sometimes use Bluff, because they want to befriend people rather than scare them, or to trick them rather than be honest with them.I tend to agree that giving players narrative control probably won't work if the players regard themselves as subject to no constraints on the choices that they make, other than considerations of mechanical optimality.</blockquote>