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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jhaelen" data-source="post: 5727220" data-attributes="member: 46713">Your method is only 'superior' if you believe it is good to make an option impossible.Here's a completely different example that illustrates why I feel that what you call 'superior' is actually 'inferior':One of the design decisions in 4e was to radically reduce the number of immunities for monsters. They decided that backstab works on undead, and fire elementals can be harmed by fire magic.I'm pretty sure at this point that you feel this was a terrible decision, while I happen to think it's an excellent way to make sure a pc isn't completely useless in an encounter because of the character archetype she chose (a rogue, or a fire mage) <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />How many reports have you read from rogue players that enjoyed the 3e 'Age of Wyrms' AP? Thought so! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />Of course I know that - I'm not new to this board and neither is this discussion <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />And it's always the same names that show up on one side of the fence! My view is just as immutable as yours: It cannot be unsatisfying if the players never know! The illusion of choice is just as satisfying as a real choice (off-topic aside: actually science tells us exactly that: choice _is_ an illusion!).This isn't about solving a mystery. That's what detective novels are about. My campaign was about saving the world from an evil force. This is D&D after all <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />See, if I made up a mystery story and decided it's to be about a murder and then decide who was the murderer, his motive and modus operandi and the hints that are there to be found, then everything has been decided beforehand by me.All that the players get to do is to 'replay' the scenario I had in mind when I created the mystery story. They have to follow the breadcrumbs I placed for them, otherwise they won't solve the story.There's a very real possibility that the scenario I had in mind is flawed: The motive isn't as compelling as I thought, some other npc would have had an even better motive, the hints aren't as clear as they could be, or worst of all: the scenario could never have happened the way I imagined because I overlooked some detail!Now what to do? How do I 'fix' my scenario?If I'm married to my initial idea, the players will simply never solve the mystery. And this isn't because they didn't have the right idea, but because _I_ didn't have the right idea!What I'm doing is allowing for the chance that I'm not always right.If I give my players narrative freedom, _they_ decide what the scenario is. Everything can happen based on the choices they make and the theories they develop. Note that this doesn't mean, they will automatically 'solve' every 'mystery': If they fail to come up with a compelling solution, they won't.How can this not be a 'superior' approach, if, after play, I read my players' adventuring journal and find that the story it tells is much better than what I had originally in mind?Have you ever wondered why authors always have someone who 'proof-reads' their stuff or even post whole chapters on the internet before publishing a book?It's because they realize that no matter how great their ideas might seem to themselves, they'll get valuable feedback that helps them to write an even better story.It 'might' get them over the gap, if those skills result in the gap being closed. Those skills might also help them to make the task of crossing the gap easier.Not necessarily. If my players spend an hour trying to solve a puzzle I invented to unlock a magical door ((because I decided beforehand that solving the puzzle is required) all it shows is that they're really, really interested in getting through that door and not that they're having fun solving puzzles.I know <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Well, you know, as it happens, one of my players lives in a new housing area that is not on any GPS map yet. I think that demonstrates quite well that no matter how good you are at reading maps, sometimes it won't help you one bit <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />And another fun fact: The place I work has been entered incorrectly in electronic maps. If you search it on Google Maps using the correct address, you'll end up in the wrong place!Naturally, the error was reported but even after more than one year, it has not been corrected. You can find the correct route on our website, but I guess you can imagine how many of our visitors call us asking for directions because they trusted their GPS <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /></blockquote>

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